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Parties, who are they and what exactly do they stand for?

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
Your sources being the not exactly unbiased aljazeera and the very left wing Grauniad?

Really?

Why not try to find something less biased for a source?
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
  1. Unified all the separate states into one nation.
  2. Set out one rule of law.
  3. Created a whole judicial system in place of arbitrary judgements by local rulers.
  4. Created a civil service.
  5. Created colonial police forces
  6. Created a professional modern army from Indian volunteers.
  7. Laid down 70,000 km of rail track and all its infrastructure (which was open to everyone.)
  8. Created hospitals and laboratories to research and treat tropical diseases and introduced modern medicine in India .
  9. Started the manufacturing sector by exporting production lines , jigs and tooling from obsolete British products, Morris cars, Enfield motorbikes, Lister Petter engines ect.
  10. Both Indian and British entrepreneurs started companies which are now global businesses in the Raj era, TATA steel was started in 1868 by an Indian Jamsetji Nusserwanji Tata. The tea industry was started by the British and is now worth $830 m a year.
  11. Attempted to stop the caste discrimination system at least for the lowest castes.
  12. Introduced legislation to protect women from being burnt alive , Bengal Sati Regulation, plus the 1829, Hindu Widows' Remarriage Act, 1856, Female Infanticide Prevention Act, 1870, and Age of Consent Act, 1891......
But apart from that. . .
 

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
Let's be honest here, if Britain had still been in charge in India there would be toilets for the majority of the population and child rape would not be half the problem that it is today.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Your sources being the not exactly unbiased aljazeera and the very left wing Grauniad?

Really?

Why not try to find something less biased for a source?
Is that your weak excuse (justification) for disregarding them? I seem to have seen that a lot on this website when it comes to the "Bridsch Empieya". Facts are facts, regardless of the source.

MsG
 

Smeggers

ADC
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
Is that your weak excuse (justification) for disregarding them? I seem to have seen that a lot on this website when it comes to the "Bridsch Empieya". Facts are facts, regardless of the source.

MsG
Hilarious spelling -- check

"Facts" presented by biased sources are not facts but merely the opinion of biased sources.

when reading stuff on the internet I like to find out about the author BEFORE making an opinion on the veracity of the content:

 

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
Shashi Tharoor is also hardly a paragon ofvirtue, there being numerous controversies and various scandals including the one where he used his office to blag shares in the IPL [cricket]. IIRC he paid off certain people to make the problem go away.
 
  1. Unified all the separate states into one nation.
  2. Set out one rule of law.
  3. Created a whole judicial system in place of arbitrary judgements by local rulers.
  4. Created a civil service.
  5. Created colonial police forces
  6. Created a professional modern army from Indian volunteers.
  7. Laid down 70,000 km of rail track and all its infrastructure (which was open to everyone.)
  8. Created hospitals and laboratories to research and treat tropical diseases and introduced modern medicine in India .
  9. Started the manufacturing sector by exporting production lines , jigs and tooling from obsolete British products, Morris cars, Enfield motorbikes, Lister Petter engines ect.
  10. Both Indian and British entrepreneurs started companies which are now global businesses in the Raj era, TATA steel was started in 1868 by an Indian Jamsetji Nusserwanji Tata. The tea industry was started by the British and is now worth $830 m a year.
  11. Attempted to stop the caste discrimination system at least for the lowest castes.
  12. Introduced legislation to protect women from being burnt alive , Bengal Sati Regulation, plus the 1829, Hindu Widows' Remarriage Act, 1856, Female Infanticide Prevention Act, 1870, and Age of Consent Act, 1891......

But apart from that...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
It's pretty pointless asking a died-in-the-wool Brit that question. However, here are a couple of articles that make very interesting reading:
'But what about the railways ...?' The myth of Britain's gifts to India

How Britain stole $45 trillion from India

MsG
just to help with your English lessons, Buggersy, that would be:

"dyed in the wool" not "died-in-the-wool".

The former alluding to a fixed opinion, the latter meaning being killed whilst wearing a sheepskin jacket.

It's one of those spelling and grammar rules that you don't believe in.
 

Smeggers

ADC
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
just to help with your English lessons, Buggersy, that would be:

"dyed in the wool" not "died-in-the-wool".

The former alluding to a fixed opinion, the latter meaning being killed whilst wearing a sheepskin jacket.

It's one of those spelling and grammar rules that you don't believe in.
See post #86, where I say exactly the same thing but before you!
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
All the parties have the problem of presenting solutions to a set of near unprecedented problems - but the Conservatives have by far the worse problem because they are in the hot seat at the moment. The other parties can waffle about what they would do, but only the Tories are in a position to actually take action. The problems are (in no particular order):
  • Brexit and its associated problems
  • Covid 19 and the poor advice the government seems to be receiving from (for example) SAGE
  • Covid 19 and the health problems arising out of that; both short term and long term
  • The immediate economic problems arising from Covid 19 - including addressing (for example) the fraud that has undoubtedly been committed relative to the furlough money
  • The long term economic problems arising from Covid 19 and how to get public spending back under control
  • Getting segments of the UK working properly again - such as schools
  • Dealing with the problems of the devolved governments (particularly the SNP) trying to make political capital out of Covid 19.
  • The lack of competent ministers in the government - Gavin Williamson for example
  • The malfunctioning civil service/quangos and how to reform them - the demise of Public Health England being an example of a bit that didn't work
  • Etc
BoJo - and the buck stops with him - seems to be suffering from problem overload. He has addressed one or two problems quite competently - Brexit for example. But he seems incapable of seeing the wider picture and dealing with it.

Which brings me back to the same point I have made over the years. Climbing to the top of the greasy political pole with no career outside of politics does not make you capable of running any of the departments of state when major problems occur and difficult/unprecedented decisions are required.

UK politics is broken and will remain so until it is seen as a second career for people who have already been successful in the real world. Coming straight out of Uni with the intention of going into politics almost immediately has resulted in a crop of politicians in many cases unfit to run a whelk stall, let alone the country.

Time to put stricter criteria on who can stand for parliament to reduce the number of professional politicians whom we have in it - we need leadership from people who have significant achievements in the real world; not who are guided by the latest thing they read on Twitter.

And remove all professional politicians/party donors from the House of Lords, so we only have people who have achieved something in real life acting as a reforming chamber.

Wordsmith
 

squiffy

Old-Salt
  1. Unified all the separate states into one nation.
  2. Set out one rule of law.
  3. Created a whole judicial system in place of arbitrary judgements by local rulers.
  4. Created a civil service.
  5. Created colonial police forces
  6. Created a professional modern army from Indian volunteers.
  7. Laid down 70,000 km of rail track and all its infrastructure (which was open to everyone.)
  8. Created hospitals and laboratories to research and treat tropical diseases and introduced modern medicine in India .
  9. Started the manufacturing sector by exporting production lines , jigs and tooling from obsolete British products, Morris cars, Enfield motorbikes, Lister Petter engines ect.
  10. Both Indian and British entrepreneurs started companies which are now global businesses in the Raj era, TATA steel was started in 1868 by an Indian Jamsetji Nusserwanji Tata. The tea industry was started by the British and is now worth $830 m a year.
  11. Attempted to stop the caste discrimination system at least for the lowest castes.
  12. Introduced legislation to protect women from being burnt alive , Bengal Sati Regulation, plus the 1829, Hindu Widows' Remarriage Act, 1856, Female Infanticide Prevention Act, 1870, and Age of Consent Act, 1891......

If I broke into your property, invited my mates in to look through your stuff and then sell it with the majority of the money going back to my house would you think that was fair?
Then I make you follow the rules from my house, whether you think they are fair or not, support my favourite football team and give you and your family hardly any say and be totally subservient to me and my mates, how fair would that be?
What about if I used your money to widen the doors and block pave the driveway to make it easier for trolleys full of your belongings to get to my van. Then I put in some pulley system to make it easier to get stuff from your upstairs and make you and your family build all this and then tell everyone that will listen that your life has actually improved from before.

Are you really intimating that India and other such countries wouldn't have a railway, industries, hospitals etc without being colonised?

I'm not saying that we didn't make some positive changes in the countries we invaded, but I am not deluded enough into believing that everything we did was for the benefit of the locals and that their lives were enriched by us invading and forcing our values onto them.
 
If I broke into your property, invited my mates in to look through your stuff and then sell it with the majority of the money going back to my house would you think that was fair?
Then I make you follow the rules from my house, whether you think they are fair or not, support my favourite football team and give you and your family hardly any say and be totally subservient to me and my mates, how fair would that be?
What about if I used your money to widen the doors and block pave the driveway to make it easier for trolleys full of your belongings to get to my van. Then I put in some pulley system to make it easier to get stuff from your upstairs and make you and your family build all this and then tell everyone that will listen that your life has actually improved from before.

Are you really intimating that India and other such countries wouldn't have a railway, industries, hospitals etc without being colonised?

I'm not saying that we didn't make some positive changes in the countries we invaded, but I am not deluded enough into believing that everything we did was for the benefit of the locals and that their lives were enriched by us invading and forcing our values onto them.
I never made any comment on the morality of colonialism, you have decided im defending it , you asked for examples of things the British "gave" India and I gave them.

Now the story has changed to " they would have had them anyway "
 

squiffy

Old-Salt
I never made any comment on the morality of colonialism, you have decided im defending it , you asked for examples of things the British "gave" India and I gave them.

Now the story has changed to " they would have had them anyway "

These weren't 'given' to India. It is not a gift if you use the money you accrued exploiting local resources and then build things you need to make it easier to take the resources out of the country..

You are defending colonialism if you attempt to portray the conquest as something that has benefited the vanquished
 

squiffy

Old-Salt
Compare India with Nepal next door which was never colonised and you will see the difference .

Nepal has few natural resources and industries and has been one of the less well of countries throughout its history. Even now it is in the region of 160+ in the GDP per capita measurement, so i doubt the finance has been available to build big infrastructure projects when other matters are more pressing.

Britain however did utilise one natural asset from Nepal, its men to form part of our fighting force and look how they have been treated at various times.
Had we needed railways and decent roads to ship them out I'm sure we would've built them...
 
You just want an excuse to post anti British colonialism rants, get over it is my advice.
No, his point of view has some validity - today.

Back in the 18th Century, had we just stayed put then we'd be a vassal of one of the other countries that would simply have done what we did - well, they tried anyway but we were the best, and contextually and now historically, shown to have been the most progressive. So while the point possibly stands now, it's a stupid argument in isolation and when looked at properly, we appear to come out of things rather well, as we normally do, because we're pretty ******* good in the grand scheme of things.

Btw - the English language was our greatest legacy to India and many of our former colonies. It meant the whole country (which was a disparate bunch of warring princely & religious states, barely a recognisable country) could easily communicate with each other, and with English becoming the lingua franca, gave it a huge boost on the world stage.

The irony being, at Independence, India could have instantly become one of the world's powerhouses - but the usual suspect got in the way and it descended into chaos and division - oh well.
 

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