Parties, who are they and what exactly do they stand for?

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Let's look at things one way, I have a big problem with mass illegally immigration, not because I'm racist but because I don't like the idea of people fleeing from warzones coming here for handouts when France is a viable country to seek asylum in.

I like the idea for knowing who is coming here and for what purpose, fairly controlled and regulation, dishing out freebies to non-UK nationals is also a no-no.
I'd prefer if it these immigrants do wind up here illegally than simply leave them alone, deny them benefits etc once the pot has run dry and they are starving than basically you **** off where the grass is greener.
I know quite alot of hard working Europeans whom work their backsides off as well.
I also don't like the idea of donating so much money abroad in foreign aid and giving so much to the EU.
I want to see the UK establish itself strongly.
You seem to have a (racist?) problem. You also seem to completely disregard the actual reasons why such folks feel forced to abandon their homes and seek refuge in other countries. Do you really think that folks in a devastated, war-torn, and violent country (but obviously [according to you] living in a blissful, peaceful bubble), would suddenly say: “Hey y’know what? Let’s just up sticks, take a long and hazardous and very expensive journey to Europe and see how we get on there”. Does that sound at all reasonable to you? No-one moves from their life on home-soil, their community and their environment without very compelling reasons.

You also appear to conveniently forget that vast areas of the world were originally populated by folks who had exactly the same thing in mind – Germans, Irish, Scandinavians etc who moved to the young United States, Huguenots and others who move to other European countries. The list goes on.

If your beef is that such folks enter the UK and then “take advantage of all the benefits”, then you might want to take a look at history and explain why the indigenous population of the UK itself has never been able to truly partake of any “benefits” since the advent of Capitalism. After all, it’s not as if there’s a dearth of wealth in the land, is it? Why is it that normal folks are categorically excluded from enjoying the prosperity generated by the country? Is it because “they don’t deserve it”? If that’s your argument (seriously?), then I’d love to hear your reasoning as to why the “elite” deserves it instead.

Finally, your last point. What do you mean when you state that “you want to see the UK establish itself strongly”? What does that entail?

MsG
 
You seem to have a (racist?) problem. You also seem to completely disregard the actual reasons why such folks feel forced to abandon their homes and seek refuge in other countries. Do you really think that folks in a devastated, war-torn, and violent country (but obviously [according to you] living in a blissful, peaceful bubble), would suddenly say: “Hey y’know what? Let’s just up sticks, take a long and hazardous and very expensive journey to Europe and see how we get on there”. Does that sound at all reasonable to you? No-one moves from their life on home-soil, their community and their environment without very compelling reasons.

You also appear to conveniently forget that vast areas of the world were originally populated by folks who had exactly the same thing in mind – Germans, Irish, Scandinavians etc who moved to the young United States, Huguenots and others who move to other European countries. The list goes on.

If your beef is that such folks enter the UK and then “take advantage of all the benefits”, then you might want to take a look at history and explain why the indigenous population of the UK itself has never been able to truly partake of any “benefits” since the advent of Capitalism. After all, it’s not as if there’s a dearth of wealth in the land, is it? Why is it that normal folks are categorically excluded from enjoying the prosperity generated by the country? Is it because “they don’t deserve it”? If that’s your argument (seriously?), then I’d love to hear your reasoning as to why the “elite” deserves it instead.

Finally, your last point. What do you mean when you state that “you want to see the UK establish itself strongly”? What does that entail?

MsG
I promote the idea that asylum seeker's should be seeking asylum in the first EU or safe country they transit into.

I'm not interested in history because that's nothing to do with me, I'm interested in what's best for us as a nation
 
The solution would be simply to deny even that if they are here illegally.

Once Brexit has occurred I'm hoping Pretty Patel and Boris will actually enforce more stringent control without worrying about the woes of the ECJ and ECHR (do we need to worry about recipricol agreements???)

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
We used to discuss politics all the time in school based on what tripe we heard on TV, but what some people really need is in layman terms to understand what each party exactly stands for and what it means to change if elected/gains majority?

QUOTE]
Pretty much all seem the same to me.
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DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
I promote the idea that asylum seeker's should be seeking asylum in the first EU or safe country they transit into.
That's how it's supposed to work, but in practice, there are many other factors involved. Not the least being that the Frogs are intent on hiving off as many asylum-seekers to other countries as they can.
I'm not interested in history because that's nothing to do with me, I'm interested in what's best for us as a nation
OK, I can understand that you're not interested in history, although I don't know why, but what exactly do you mean when you state that "you're interested in what's best for 'us' as a nation"?

MsG
 
Some impoverished ex-mining communities voted Tory to keep the Labour Party out.
Many of the working class are socially conservative (meaning they believe in things like law and order, controlling immigration, national borders and patriotism), and they're also left of centre when it comes to the economy; i.e. in having a fair welfare state, free NHS and education.

The Tories (or Dom Cummings) knows this and our current Tory gov are socially conservative AND economically on the left.

Which is why the red wall turned blue.
 
Labour: Everyone should be equal? The many not the few, advocates free university, free this, free that, people with more worth pay more tax,
Labour are now the party of the middle class. They're only relevant in woke middle class areas like London or university towns, or areas with a high BAME count.

They support free movement and therefore no longer represent the British working class. Free movement removes the power of collective negotiation from the working class; it also devaluates the cost of labour.
 
That's how it's supposed to work, but in practice, there are many other factors involved. Not the least being that the Frogs are intent on hiving off as many asylum-seekers to other countries as they can.

OK, I can understand that you're not interested in history, although I don't know why, but what exactly do you mean when you state that "you're interested in what's best for 'us' as a nation"?

MsG
So I'm "racist" yet you're referring to the French as "Frogs"...

Best for us as a nation? Thriving economically and prosperity, GBP increasing, a more stable economy, bustling trade agreements, what do you think I'm referring to, world domination, or maybe the concept of "what's best for us" flew over your head?
 
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I decided to educate myself whilst bored so next time I go to vote I'm giving it to the party which serves my interests

From what I can see

Tory: Vote for us because everyone else is worse

Labour: Everyone should be equal but Labour big wigs and union barons should be more equal than others? Weaponise the NHS, Immigration, the Police and the Public Sector in general, tax rises for the many not the few, a home for people of inherited wealth who feel guilty and want to virtue signal by punishing anyone with ambition, erase the indigenous population through uncontrolled immigration and champion Islamists and the non working class, and try and divide the country by race

SNP: Independance for Scotland by becoming a vassal state of the EU

Green Party: No idea - Marxism with a Green face

Lib Dem: No idea about anything, Marxism by Tim nice but dim's
FTFY
 
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DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Snip.....

So what were your compelling reasons for coming here?
Why would that interest you, mush? What does that have to do with the subject at hand? It's about desperate and traumatisierte asylum-seekers. That is, folks who have no choice but to evacuate their homes or be killed. That's a very far cry from why we originally came to the UK in 2004 - which was because my (Italian) wife expressed s great interest in working (and learning) in an English-language environment.

MsG
 
Why would that interest you, mush? What does that have to do with the subject at hand? It's about desperate and traumatisierte asylum-seekers. That is, folks who have no choice but to evacuate their homes or be killed. That's a very far cry from why we originally came to the UK in 2004 - which was because my (Italian) wife expressed s great interest in working (and learning) in an English-language environment.

MsG
Asylum seekers who have no business coming here because frankly France is a stable haven for them... oh wait... benefits anyone???
 
Without wanting to drift the thread further it seems conversatives did adamently want to show they would do something to stem the tide of the influx on constant immigration, one of their key pointers they rave about
Showing intent but actually do very little about it for some reason - Conservatives seem to be all talk and no action


Archibald
 
Why would that interest you, mush? What does that have to do with the subject at hand? It's about desperate and traumatisierte asylum-seekers. That is, folks who have no choice but to evacuate their homes or be killed. That's a very far cry from why we originally came to the UK in 2004 - which was because my (Italian) wife expressed s great interest in working (and learning) in an English-language environment.

MsG
But surely you were desperate and traumatized because your family was killed twice.

I just don't get why you live here if you dislike it so much.

Mush
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
But surely you were desperate and traumatized because your family was killed twice.

I just don't get why you live here if you dislike it so much.

Mush
I realise that with your seriously limited intelligence it's very difficult for you to concentrate, but could you actually stay on-subject for once?

MsG
 

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
Tories believe in Capitalism , being taking the least tax from the people and allowing the economy to set the spending levels of a govt. They also believe in the minimal amount of Government " interference " in peoples lives. Jobs the Economy etc all set by commercial operations . Tories believe that capital should control the state by providing wealth creation jobs etc to the state. But in practice not too much in taxes themselves cheap labour and flexible working conditions are the holy grail. sic zero hours contracts .
The Tories are made up mostly of the land owning classes and capitalists .

Labour believes that the state should govern the economy and the state should provide , as much as possible , support for sick ,unemployed and elderly people. Labour is NOT anti business but believes the best role for the capitalists is produce taxes for the government to use. Labour is very good at spending other peoples money and creating "council " type jobs where it seems no one is in control .
The Labour party is made up mostly of middle class intellectuals , where it once was formed by members of the unions . the first thing the first labour government did was to buy top hats and tails for its cabinet so that they would look the part.

Liberals believe in a mixed economy with fair deals for capital and labour . They have become more and more small c Conservatives . In fact the Tory party was The conservative and Liberal Party in the past.They have prooved to be excellent at council lever but non effective in central Government .

Asf or the rest you pays ter money and makes yer choice .
 

endure

GCM
Liberals believe in a mixed economy with fair deals for capital and labour . They have become more and more small c Conservatives . In fact the Tory party was The conservative and Liberal Party in the past.They have prooved to be excellent at council lever but non effective in central Government .
This much is true. We have a LibDem councillor (that I vote for every time) and she's excellent at holding whoever's in power's feet to the fire.
 

LepetitCaporal

Old-Salt
Live and let die, is what I prone
Respect the rules of the nation that harbours you
Too many are wondering / concerning about people that they have never met
Time is to precious to be bother about some strangers life
Get on with your own
 

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
Showing intent but actually do very little about it for some reason - Conservatives seem to be all talk and no action


Archibald
Traditionally the Tories really like immigration as it gives poor people someone else to hate , also they tend to vote Tory once that they are settled. The main reason though is to flood the workplace with extra labour so that they can keep wages and conditions down. The illegals work in the "black " economy which spreads money (cash) around illegals send some money home of course but once they are settled they spend their new wealth on things like small businesses cars and other goods which they only aspired to in their homelands . Because they are under the radar their money flows in the community.

Take the Irish 1950s 60 70s. They worked in construction for the most part, they worked on the lump. In other words worked under assumed name cash in hand no hours contracts and no benefits. Once the lump was mostly stopped they then went " self employed" buying or stealing 714 certificates which meant they were not stopped tax as they were supposed to pay up at the end of year accounting.
Then they went really self employed using all the benefits of a lax tax system to enjoy paying less tax than folks on P.A.Y.E.

In the good ole day of your "cards" stamps bought as holiday or for sick pay enthusiastic lumpers could rent these on to a friend who was signing on and working so the stamps built up and if the lumper was a non citizen with a set of cards the world was his oyster.

When i was working in the Rag Trade an unannounced visitor to the workshop wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase would often create a stampead of workers disappearing from every orifice of the factory except the front door.

Another story.
Immigrants often get their lodgings and their work supplied by their landlord. They are paid low wages so the cash that they have has to be spent on essentials such as food and clothing . Again this is good for the economy as this gets cash flow into the community. Also this leads to them being used badly a subject for another day .
so Tories whilst they speak anti immigration to the likes of us they actually love it as a good way to control the costs of labour .
 
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