Partial revocation of general licence

#21
Thank you everyone for trickle feeding the info, I'm checking a few sources hourly and will post anything if I'm not beaten to it.

It'd be nice to see the whole shooting community unite against this rather than the usual pigeon shooters Vs pheasant shooters Vs practical shotgun Vs blah blah blah

as a strictly passing thought not wanting to derail the thread, Post B-word it'd be nice if the success of fighting this can be carried on and get target pistols and semi auto center fire Rifles back, Licencing carried out by a DVLA type agency and the other reforms discussed in other threads
 
#24
Just seen this on Facebook.

"Anyone who’s wondering about the General licenses, Just got off the phone from my mate who’s a main part of natural england licensing and adviser for them he comes shooting with me fairly regular,
it was basically a loophole Packham & Mark Aviary found and Natural England’s Law team just said there’s no point in fighting it as there’s nothing they can do to go against it as it’s a clear flaw in the license.
**Natural England did not want to have to revoke the 3 main licenses in any way what so ever. It was a Lawsuit from Packham & Aviary, if N.E had challenged against it there would have been zero chance of winning it**
So everyone filing complaints to Natural England your not helping in the slightest- they are on our side and are working flat out to bring out new licenses to get us all back up and running soon as possible! As much as this will piss off Packham & Aviary
They’ve been in the process of sorting out a whole new number of general licenses for the last few weeks as they saw this coming and have scrapped about 5 previous draft ones where there’s flaws still.
Obviously Natural England don’t want 50,000 odd people each year wanting to apply for individual licenses to shoot or trap as it would be impossible to do all the paperwork.
Natural england in 2014 wanted to amend the general licenses to get rid of this loophole about having to prove you’ve tried all other non lethal options first and just to update them but nobody from our shooting organisations wanted to know about it or wanted any changes, so now these flaws in the licenses have been exposed and this has happened.
Within the next few weeks hopefully will be some updated licenses being released to replace the 3 revoked ones but there will be quite a few more different general licenses for the 16 members of birds so not just 3 main ones that cover everything. Soon as I hear anymore will let you know."
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#27
I’ve just been invited to a closed Facebook group whereby the members are all planning to hand themselves into the police on Friday morning with a dead crow in their hand.
 
#28
I confess I quite fancy a wee demonstration. Tweeds mandatory.

Perhaps, say, in London, block a few roads, do some yoga, what could possibly go wrong...
 
#29
I confess I quite fancy a wee demonstration. Tweeds mandatory.

Perhaps, say, in London, block a few roads, do some yoga, what could possibly go wrong...
I reckon that no matter where you held any pro hunting type of demonstration, you'd be outnumbered by counter demonstrations from those who think they have a notion about the countryside, hunting and conservation when in fact most of them have very little clue about any of it.
 
#33
Mark Avery was on Jeremy Vine earlier talking about the shambles down south and an NFU spokesman came across very well.

The one and only thing that made sense is Avery said they expected it to be implemented after a transition period and that was in their application - apparently. Seems like NE just bottled it and hit the button.


It’s just a shame no one phoned in and said “Mark, is it not just the case that this is another way to attack driven game shooting to try and get it licensed or banned and you really couldn’t give a **** about ‘red listed’ species and mountain hares currently only thriving on driven grouse moors as really unless it’s a raptor there’s no money in it for you and your cronies”?

And as if by magic......

1556199051952.jpeg
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#35
The NGO has today (Thursday) obtained further details from Natural England on the temporary Individual Licensing Scheme which NE say will be available for applications via the gov.uk website later today

After chasing Natural England all morning, the National Gamekeepers' Organisation (NGO) has finally been given some details of the temporary Individual Licensing Scheme which NE say will be available for applications via the gov.uk website later today. NE have answered our questions as follows:

When will the scheme be available for online applications?
It will be available on gov.uk from 5pm today (Thursday 25 April). In what NE publishes, they say it will be clear where people can take immediate action if they need to do so. This measure (under Section 4 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act) does not cover control for conservation purposes, but does cover livestock and crop protection situations. (See also below).

Applications for control for 'conservation purposes' (which are the licences most used by gamekeepers at this time of year; eg to protect red grouse or other wild gamebirds), will need to be made through the Individual licensing system from 5pm. NE says it will endeavour "to turn them around as quickly as we can". NE also says that the new replacement General Licence for conservation purposes is "in production."
Who will be able to apply? :
NE says that landowners and others authorised by them to control birds (eg gamekeepers) will all be able to apply for the Individual Licences if they need them.
Will they have to apply separately for each species they want to control?:
NE says not. Their reply to the NGO reads: "The Individual Licences are divided by purpose not by species. New General Licences will be for species/purpose (e.g. crow/conservation, wood pigeon/crops). We will start putting this in place from the 29th April and corvids/conservation are one of the first few."
How long will it take NE to approve an Individual Licence application?:
NE told the NGO: "Individual Licence applications will go through a fast track process. We will prioritise processing those applications where there is no recourse to Section 4." (ie they will prioritise the applications being made for 'conservation purposes', which will include most of those being made by gamekeepers at this time).
To clarify, the Section 4 clause that NE are saying will cover you for any bird control necessary to protect crops and livestock is not a licence. It is a defence that people who kill a protected bird can use to defend themselves in court if prosecuted. It is only valid if you can show there was no other satisfactory solution to killing the bird and if you tell the Agriculture Minister what you have done as soon as reasonably possible after killing the bird in question. The NGO has taken legal advice on Section 4 in the past and been told it is untested in the courts and that it would be most unwise to rely on it. The NGO's advice, therefore, is that if you need to control birds for crop or livestock protection, the much safer route is to obtain an Individual Licence, or to wait until the relevant promised replacement General Licence comes into effect.
Will there be a fee for an Individual Licence?:
NE says not, at least in the short term but that this may be reviewed later in the year.

The NGO will continue to keep this website updated as the situation develops.
Members and others should be assured that we are doing all we possibly can to assist them at this very tricky time and that we have made our disgust at the way NE has handled this whole process abundantly clear.
It looks like my shepherd will be busy with about 500 lambs at the moment!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#37
Legally as the land owner he is liable for the death/explanation of how so many protected birds ended up on his land!
 
#38
Mark Avery was on Jeremy Vine earlier talking about the shambles down south and an NFU spokesman came across very well.

The one and only thing that made sense is Avery said they expected it to be implemented after a transition period and that was in their application - apparently. Seems like NE just bottled it and hit the button.


It’s just a shame no one phoned in and said “Mark, is it not just the case that this is another way to attack driven game shooting to try and get it licensed or banned and you really couldn’t give a **** about ‘red listed’ species and mountain hares currently only thriving on driven grouse moors as really unless it’s a raptor there’s no money in it for you and your cronies”?

And as if by magic......

View attachment 389473
That bit you circled, the effect of corvids uncontrolled on songbirds I have witnessed beyond doubt.
Wild Justice are either blithering idiots, or liars .
 
#40
That bit you circled, the effect of corvids uncontrolled on songbirds I have witnessed beyond doubt.
Wild Justice are either blithering idiots, or liars .
Liars......

The Salisbury Plain Study - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

The study relates to grey partridge but everyone knows they predate songbirds, red listed waders, anything, in fact even Osprey eggs, so much so even the RSPB control them (but don’t like to talk about it).

Of course they will say different because it suits their rhetoric.
 
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