Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Sky-Monkey, Sep 4, 2006.
The heart of the site is the forum area, including:
Hmm. Not sure about this:
Surely logic would dictate payments on a pro-rata basis......or is that just too simple?
While I have no link, I understand that political prisoners (IRA murderers of British soldiers etc.) released under The Good Friday Agreement recieved Â£16,000 each tax free from the British Govt. as 'resettlement'.
If the RIR part timers are bitter because their redundancy is a pi$$ in the ocean in comparison then I'm afraid I understand their plight and am pi$$ed off with them.
Someone please inform me if I am incorrect in any way.
Sigh.... I have been down this one before but here goes...
PT R IRISH soldiers raised this issue FIVE YEARS AGO under the Part Time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000.
Initially 27-29 Redress cases were submitted of which 9 survived the various 'out of time' tactics of the MoD in the Belfast Employment Tribunal. These cases were mostly from PT soldiers who had worked full time duties which HQNI axed in 2000.
These 9 Redress cases have all gone to the Army Board who have decided to deferr any decision until the ET decides the cases. This itself may be an abdication of their statutary duty(?) Matters were not helped by the 18 month civil service strike at the ET in Belfast which created a large backlog.
So, this is not new news but what is news is that since the cases were lodged back in 2001 the MoD have announced the disbandment of the HS Bns. Key words used were 'honour and dignity' and it was thought that in the expected announcements and DIN that the MoD would 'look after' the PT in line with extant PTW legislation. Wrong! I did hear that the MoD legal advice was 'not to grant any form of recognition to the PT which would be construed as recognition of service - hence only the PT received Â£14k ex-gratia payment. No pension. No paid leave. No redundancy!
Interestingly the MoD civil servants who are also being made redundant under normalisation will receive Â£14k taxable and entitled redundancy payments - PART TIME civil servants will also receive the Â£14k and 'pro rata' redundancy and pension as well! PT soldiers do not!
Why are the PT submitting these Redresses? Really there is no choice in the matter. Some facts to consider...
1. The end of operation Banner is 31 Jul 06.
2. PT are having their 'service terminated' on 31 Mar 07. (saving MoD 4 months wages)
3. HQNI want PT gone by 31 Dec 06. (saving another 3 months wages)
4. Even if kept until 31 Mar the PT will only get 3/4 of a bounty. (saving 1/4 of the bounty cost which is already in the 06/07 TLB!).
5. With point 2, 3, & 4 taken into account the Â£14k ex-gratia payment becomes Â£11.5k!!
6. PT have the same 7% abatement from their pay as the rest of the Reg Army (Note, HSPT are part of the Reg Army - suprise to some, I know) but the PT are specifically excluded from the Army Pensions Warrant.
7. The PT are been 'called out' for operations in NI. (not like the TA who have to be mobilised).
8. PT are subject to Military Law 24/7.
9. PT had no choice but to submit redresses due to the 3 month time constraint imposed by AGAIs.
10. PT now have to submit IT1s to the ET in Belfast - again the three month time frame applies to have a claim heard. (It is this time constraint in the regulations that is forcing the PT into registering cases with the ET otherwise any legal recourse is gone)
PT morale is in the toilet and many PT feel angry and let down by the chain of command who do not seem to be arguing the case for them.
PT are not asking for anything that they are not entitled to under current legislation. The MoD have not actioned EU legislation but are prepared to fight those like the HSPT in the courts - I remember the 'pregnant servicewomen case. I remender the homosexuality cases and many others. Why don't they embrace the law instead of wasting money fighting it through the courts?
Feck and I thought I had problems with the new ' your car must be insureed' policy when using own car for military purposes and submitting 1771's ! (mtgs etc) - not that its not insured of course
Good luck guys sense you are going to need it!
"RIR" is a construct of Seamus Mallon's bigotry and bone idle, idiotic NI reporters.
The Regiment concerned should be abbreviated to R Irish.
Let's set a better example on ARRSE than that of those aforementioned tossers.
Well said BBR,
For too long have the government bent over and had a butt spanking from the likes of Mallon, Adams and his girlfriend McGuinness.
Frankly the R IRISH deserve everything they are "entitled" to and more besides. It is sickening the way this government rushes to suck up to former enemies but tries to slight and ignore those who pull the chips out the fire.
It was ever thus but that doesn't make it right, especially when Bliar and Co. came to power promising good things and an end to sleaze and injustice.
What worries me more than anything else is that the skills and training of the PT R Irish will disappear. In my opinion they should have kept a platoon going in each town where there is a company now. What happens if another campaign flares up? How long will it take us to mobilise without a hard core of trained IS soldiers?
I agree totally. There are plenty of sound military arguments to retain the R Irish HSPT, (and the full timers also of course) in some capacity. The fact that none of these have prevailed is more to do with politics and appeasement.
I posted awhile ago that Col Tim suggested a merging the PT Royal Irish with the TA or something.One thing tho is that these chaps have to now find a full time job in a lot of cases.And in some area's of the Province,that may not be safe or possible.
Col Tim's idea is fine except that a lot of PT R Irish wouldn't have the same passion for the TA as they have for the defence of their own town.
I don't think employment in PIRA dominated areas will be an issue. The platoons and compnaies who were isolated like that were all murdered or their bases blown up years ago. Glennane being the last.
If you remember we had to support Rucksack in wee villages like NTH because the local UDR had all been killed?
I believe that although denied by the MOD this situation has been thoguht out years prior to the announcement with a headline figures looking good but as with all political agendas, reading into the small print shows an amount of calculated spreadsheet manipulation. Good luck to the Part-Time they do deserve what they are entitled to under the law, but like the devil the MOD have the best lawyers.
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