Paras without planes: RAF running out of Hercules

#21
PCLG said:
For the techno geeks amongst us it is noteworthy that using a C130 for jumping places a great deal of stress on the aircraft far in excess of normal flying so the act of jumping itself exsacerbates the problem.
How so? Short air time? Taking off - landing in quick succession? Maybe the farting and puking added to that as well?
Sincere apologies to those airframes for any stress caused in the past... :roll:
 
#22
western said:
Isn't it time the Army bit the bullet and called the Parachute Regiment and Airborne Forces Army Commandos?

Why? What would that achieve?

Not knocking the quality of the blokes but the whole Parachuting thing is becoming a millstone now.

A millstone? Para pay for Airborne forces doesn't even equate to small change in the MoD's annual budget.
Queensman said:
Seems to me a vehicle for posing, vanity and one-up-man-ship for those who like to cut about in maroon hats.

Seems like a little bit of jealousy going on there to be honest.
 
#23
para_medic said:
PCLG said:
For the techno geeks amongst us it is noteworthy that using a C130 for jumping places a great deal of stress on the aircraft far in excess of normal flying so the act of jumping itself exsacerbates the problem.
How so? Short air time? Taking off - landing in quick succession? Maybe the farting and puking added to that as well?
Sincere apologies to those airframes for any stress caused in the past... :roll:
The high stress times on Airframes are landings and take offs and also the dive,climes used when carrying out heavy drops, it's normaly not the flying hours that do the damage,it's the take off, landing rotations
 
#24
Fallschirmjager said:
Queensman said:
Seems to me a vehicle for posing, vanity and one-up-man-ship for those who like to cut about in maroon hats.

Seems like a little bit of jealousy going on there to be honest.
A tired and unimaginitive response but it's only to be expected. No, no jealousy at all, I can assure you. I imagine the only jealousy is between the 'haves and the have nots' in the Maroon hatted battalions.
 
#25
Parachute training is beneficial for other things than airborne drops.
I found the landing technique very useful when I had to jump out of the window on the second floor of a whore house in germany just as it was getting raided by the polizei. My CO used to take a dim view of anyone visiting establishments such as these.
 
#26
Queensman said:
A tired and unimaginitive response but it's only to be expected. No, no jealousy at all, I can assure you. I imagine the only jealousy is between the 'haves and the have nots' in the Maroon hatted battalions.
Not in the least tired or unimaginative (at least a Para can spell it correctly). Of course you are jealous. You know deep down that your Regiment is/was total shit so you try to make amends by slagging other regiments off. It's natural so don't worry about it. Not all soldiers can be as good as us. :wink:
 
#27
We should be learning a few lessons from the past on this subject:
1. Falklands - where we almost made an arrse of it in binning our aircraft carriers, and
2. The Haldane Reforms (1906-1912)

The Haldane Reforms were a series of changes that led to the BEF being estabished, and this is something I think we should look to again.

The BEF (both wars) was established to specifically intervene in a 'major war'.

This requires our army to be ready for anything, and so I think that we need all the capabilites maintained, just in case, as we cannot predict the shape of any future conflict (Falklands being a case in point).

So although our room for armoured maneouvre is limited in Afghanistan it certainly wasn't in Iraq and equally although the Paras were not required to drop in large numbers in Iraq I can see the future need to do so in the mountains of Afghanistan.

I think this is the problem withe recent governments - trying to shape the army to the current situation rather then staying flexible for future surprises, suprises that when they do come up can be exspensive to meet in the short term.

So, as much as it pains me to say, there is a key need to keep Paras, fully trained and ready to be delivered, nemisis-like, from the air.
 
#29
Queensman said:
Does it really matter?
Are the 45% who can't 'jump' any less effective in today's army or today's operations? - Of course they're not.
Jumping out out aeroplanes in large numbers is a thing of the past and has hardly ever been successful. Let's remember the Paraplegics greatest battle honour, Arnham, was the most monumental c***-up and a vain glorious defeat, however gallant the actions of some individuals were on the ground. Name me a success......

Seems to me a vehicle for posing, vanity and one-up-man-ship for those who like to cut about in maroon hats.

An interesting statistic would be 'how many staff officers and other non-regimental people are there who always manage to 'get their jumps in' to keep their Qual pay?' - I know of several.
I tend not to bite at these posts but Fella, you are a complete fecking knobjockey. One of the more bitter and twisted posts I've read for a while.

Here's a shock to any non Para Regt / Airborne Forces out there, as a crow in Depot in 1983 we were told that mass drops were unlikely in the future so we know full well the limitations and history of Airborne ops. Parachuting into battle is an option, not a fecking god given right and the answer to every scenario..........we know this.

Recent ops in Iraq by SF have shown it is still a viable method of delivery to get men on the ground so its a skill that is still required even if it does fecking p.iss you off.

Whether the future of Airborne Forces is safe in the hands of this any subsequent Govt I have no idea, may be one day it will be scraped or Battalions cut back further or shock, horror even an enlarged SFSG capability using 2 and 3 Para.....who knows, certainly not me.
 
#30
Fallschirmjager said:
Queensman said:
A tired and unimaginitive response but it's only to be expected. No, no jealousy at all, I can assure you. I imagine the only jealousy is between the 'haves and the have nots' in the Maroon hatted battalions.
Not in the least tired or unimaginative (at least a Para can spell it correctly). Of course you are jealous. You know deep down that your Regiment is/was total shit so you try to make amends by slagging other regiments off. It's natural so don't worry about it. Not all soldiers can be as good as us. :wink:
I feel all warm and fuzzy now :D
 
#31
tropper66 said:
PCLG said:
PCLG said:
Yeoman_dai said:
'Realistic Training for War...'

How is practising large scale para drop's training for war? When was the last time they tried it?




Don't worry, for all you outraged maroon types, fingers poised, i'm just joking. ;) :twisted:

(Then again, you ARE para's, so probably need it spelled out :D : :p
FCUK off hat.
The irony of the response was clearly lost. It wasn't a genuine response you numpties.

Defence Planning Assumptions still believe we require a parachute capability - I appreciate that most people think there is no point to the para role but thankfully some very clever people disagree.

Unfortunately in this 'risk' culture defence has elected to take risk against it. The C130 is in far more need in Afg than for parachuting. If we got an increase in ariframes the first trange would still be operationally committed and not for jumping.

For the techno geeks amongst us it is noteworthy that using a C130 for jumping places a great deal of stress on the aircraft far in excess of normal flying so the act of jumping itself exsacerbates the problem.
In last nights "Airforce Afghanistan" they did a heavy drop with a C130J which puts a hell of a lot more stress on an airframe thah droppind bodies
The C130J has'nt been in service all that long with the RAF compared to the older types.Part of the problem is the RAF were counting on the new FLA (Future Large Aircraft) to replace the C-130.Now that's been binned they've had to buy more Globemaster,which were originally leased from the USAF.
It's TSR-2 saga all over again.
(When the TSR-2 was binned,the RAF was forced to buy ex-RN Phantoms & Bucaneers to fill the gap that the TSR-2 was destined to fill!)
 
#32
Fallschirmjager said:
CavalryCaptain said:
So, as much as it pains me to say, there is a key need to keep Paras, fully trained and ready to be delivered, nemisis-like, from the air.
Why does it pain you to say it? I would sincerely like to know.
Merely a bit of good natured, inter-service, rivalry, Fallschirmjager.
 
#34
Fallschirmjager said:
Queensman said:
A tired and unimaginitive response but it's only to be expected. No, no jealousy at all, I can assure you. I imagine the only jealousy is between the 'haves and the have nots' in the Maroon hatted battalions.
Not in the least tired or unimaginative (at least a Para can spell it correctly). Of course you are jealous. You know deep down that your Regiment is/was total shit so you try to make amends by slagging other regiments off. It's natural so don't worry about it. Not all soldiers can be as good as us. :wink:
I've had connections with your regiment for most of my life; through family, ACF (para), and was regularly in and out of Depot (Browning!) during my school days and then briefly afterwards. I now find myself socializing with and occasionally working with Para reg types.

I can honestly say they are now and have always been, the biggest bunch of arrogant w@nkers to walk God's green earth.

Unfortunately this arrogance is, more often than not, justified.
But just don'tgive them a serious job: such as watching terror suspects.
 
#35
bigeye said:
I can honestly say they are now and have always been, the biggest bunch of arrogant w@nkers to walk God's green earth.

Unfortunately this arrogance is, more often than not, justified
Feckin right
 
#36
bigeye said:
I can honestly say they are now and have always been, the biggest bunch of arrogant w@nkers to walk God's green earth.
Do you know what! I actually agree with you in a way. Can you blame us for being arrogant when we have most of the British Army trying to put us down at every opportunity. Should we sit back and say nothing? Also, we and the MoD know we are by far the best infantry unit on the planet. Therefore it is our God given right to gob off. :wink:
 

Pararegtom

LE
Book Reviewer
#37
But just don'tgive them a serious job: such as watching terror suspects


Watch and Shoot! Watch and Shoot!!
 
#38
The sheer scale of the work needed to grow an airborne insertion capability, when you look at aircrew, PJI's, Air despatchers, paratroopers etc and the relevant quals they need to first gain then maintain, if UK bins its airborne insertion capbility then it will not be re-grown without tremendous pain.

That may seem like a good idea now, but to maintain the capability is far cheaper and more sensible than binning it and then having top re-grow.

Just because we havent used something in anger doesnt mean it automatically comes up for cutting. The RAF have no shot down a plane since the 70's and then it was one of their own, but not having a air interdiction capability (of sorts) is not being considered. We havent used TRIDENT but that again is expected to be maintained and replaced. These are all capitol intensive capabilites that are retained "in case of" rather than because of regular utility. Which I woudl suggest is exactly what defense capability is, "in case of" or insurance. If you maintain a capability it acts both as a deterrent and as an option for military planners at the government of the days behest. It allows for political activity under the cover of credible capability.

Back to the airborne capability, as resources decrease the UK and its nationals are invovled in more and more of the the worlds shitholes, many of which are landlocked. If you want the option to get them back, under a NEO which could easily be opposed, then you need an airfield. The only way to take an airfield in a landlocke country is TALO, and if cratered then airborne overhead assualt with engineer heavy equipment to repair the airfield and then TALO in the rest of the TF. So do we suggest we bin the capability and wait until we need it and try and re-grow it? That would come just after some local warlord holds the UK to ransom and we either gave in, or hand our nationals returned in little pieces as the fuzzy wuzzys so like to do.

My question then is, I guess, why do we feel the need to revist ceasing a capability which has more utiltiy now as insurance and demonstrable force projection in many real world sceanrio's than many other ones, on what often is simply based on beret colour?
 
#39
SickNorman said:
bigeye said:
I can honestly say they are now and have always been, the biggest bunch of arrogant w@nkers to walk God's green earth.

Unfortunately this arrogance is, more often than not, justified
Feckin right

...then again I've also worked with a serving member of the 'them' who saved my bacon (following an act of rashness on my part) and who was anything but arrogant.
 
#40
Pararegtom said:
But just don'tgive them a serious job: such as watching terror suspects


Watch and Shoot! Watch and Shoot!!
unfortunately he wasn't watching ...he was having a slash.
 

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