Parachute Training Slash

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Parry, May 6, 2005.

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  1. Was speaking to a friend in the RM who's recently lost his place to go and do parachute training down at RAF Brize, he's been told its because the MOD is reducing the number of places from 39,000 to 8,000 a year. Does anyone know anything more on this issue? Or how it will affect the state of the forces, nevermind the disgruntled people that wanted to do it.
  2. Its all for the good, the days of entrusting our parachute training to a bunch of crab wanna-bees should be in the past. Various options are being considered.
  3. Sorry remind me, when was the last time parachute trained personnel actually parachuted into combat (large scale)?


    As someone who was 'encouraged' by a previous unit to do his para course I'm still confused as to why.

    The relatively light weapons and equipment carried by airborne forces makes them vulnerable on the ground to all but the most poorly equipped foes. I can understand a requirement to insert recce or SF troops but its surely outdated as a mode of inserting large formations of troops.

    As for,

    Its all to do with safety on the A/C I'm reliably informed by a mate of 47Sqn. PJI's are considered aircrew (in a similar manner to aeromeds) and as such the 'proper' aircrew know they can trust them to carry out their jobs without endangering the aircraft. As I've seen squaddies on many occasions seemingly oblivious to the perils of flight safety and FOD wandering across A/C operating areas with their pretty hats still on perhaps limiting their ability to damage A/C is a good thing.

    Consider away. The cost of sending potential para's to Fort Bragg (the option being considered) would probably be far too high for the MoD to accept, especially when the A/C are available in the UK. Also 'rocking the boat' in this inter-service manner will just get questions asked at Whitehall into why we maintain so many parachute trained personnel.

    Things do need to be changed in the way the services operate in the 'purple enviroment' but throwing toys out the cot by the Army won't solve anything. Yes I agree some of the PJI's act like complete pricks but they do know their stuff, much as it pains me to say it. Unfortunately I think the problem is Army based in that whenever the three services come together in a tri-service enviroment it always seems the Army wants to be in charge, which when A/C are involved won't happen.
  4. Sorry remind me, when was the last time parachute trained personnel actually parachuted into combat (large scale)?

    ...quite recently according the Crab Regiment blokes I was speaking to.

    I just about held it together without bursting into laughter!

    RAF PTIs = Tarts

    RAF PEdOs = Treat their PTIs like mushrooms.

  5. Well speaking from the limited perspective of another pie-eating, cr@phat, armchair pundit, might I speculate that this outdated methodology, somehow seems to engender an ethos and esprit de-corps that makes our parachute forces the finest shock troops in the world.

    ( as well as the envy of our allies and adversaries )

    But then perhaps I have just read too many Fleetway Action Comic picture library publications, whilst lying on my pit all weekend waiting for either the bar or the cookhouse to open???
  6. I find it hard to believe that there are 39,000 places on parachute training available each year :!: Even Tri-Service. 8 thousand sounds a reasonable number. 39,000 is over 3000 places a month. In 7 years the entire Tri Services could be jumps trained.

    I'm not having a dig, its just the figures dont seem to add up.

  7. Of course you can speculate, but the end doesn't always justify the means.

    The Royal Marines also have a massive amount of 'esprit de corps' and I challenge anyone to say that they aren't one of the best fighting forces in the world, but unlike the Para's the role that they spend so much time and money training for has been practised and proven in recent years.

    I'm not saying that there shouldn't be trained parachute personnel for the reasons I've already mentioned but consider the bottom line, cost. How much more does it cost to keep all the para aspects of the British Army current and trained to do a role that hasn't been practised in large scale since Suez? Now consider how much better the 'hat' regiments of the Army could be equipped for doing a job that has been practised nearly every year since the end of WWII with the saving made by trimming back the parachute brigade.

    No doubt I'll be slagged off rotten for my comments but hey, thats my 2p worth.
  8. Nope, you got it in one. The man carrying parachute is obsolete except, possibly, for SF, and the range of the Merlin helicopter makes even that application dubious.

    That being said, I wouldn't spend all the money saved by dismantling the parachute capability on surface units - most of it should go on an enhanced helicopter capability.
  9. I can't see helicopters making it all the way to Harare. Parachute trained troops are the only ones that give us the ability to project ourselves almost anywhere. It's not about what's happened in the last 50 years, it's about what will happen in the next 50 years.
  10. You've hit the nail squarely on the head Awol.

    Roll on Harare, you've got my juices flowing! :wink:

  11. Your friend being a bootie is a Naval Infantryman is he not?? So he will be quite adept at beach landings and all things salty! So why is there a parachute roll for the RM? Surely they should arrive courtesy of the Navy and leave the parachuting to the Para's!!!

    Is he (being RM) not taking up a place at PCAU that should be going to an 'Army Parachutist'???? Perhaps this is why they are reducing the number of slots at brize to stop every Tom, Dick or HARRY! getting a(some might say 'undeserved') place at jump school!!

    And as for the old 'Last jump Suez' argument... We havent used Nuclear Devices for a long time either! Does that mean we should f@ck them off aswell???????
  12. My issues is not with their Eprit de corps, their music is par excellence and they have a huge following amongst the record buying public.

    However Royal has consistently proved that as a brigade they are dependant on a logistical tail bigger than that of the Army's two divisions combined. Unlike the paras, they can't operate without it. I'm talking about troops who can shock on the field of battle here, not ones who will shock on Princess street on a saturday night !!

    If you are persuing budgetary nirvana here, suggest you get the auditors into Guz, Chivenor and Yeovilton as well??
  13. There was me thinking this was about some poor barsteward getting lagged on mid jump....
  14. I can think of a few combat parachute jumps in the last 25 years:

    Grenada 1983
    Panama 1989
    Afghanistan 2001
    Iraq 2003 (173rd Abn Bde)

    The US Army is actually increasing its number of paratroop units.

    Here's a simple fact - an unloaded helicopter has much greater range than a loaded helicopter. A corrollary of this is that, if you parachute in and helo out, you can conduct operations at a much greater range than if you helo in and helo out.