Para CIC Vs All Arms P-Coy

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by bibo_boy, Jul 4, 2006.

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  1. How does Para CIC i.e. CIC with P-Coy compare with All Arms P-Coy?

    Only reason I ask was because when I was going for All Arms P-Coy, I did 4 weekends of Pre-para and was so pumped up trying to improve times (which I did) that I injured myself.

    Iwas talking to someone the other day that said that Para CIC then P-Coy (even though just as hard as each other) was slightly more gradual as you had 2 weeks prep in an ideal environment.

    I'm not trying to say that one is better than the other..... it's just I thought I had a reasonable chance of passing P-Coy and I believe I was a victim of my own eagerness brought on by poor training. I, in my small opinion believe the All Arms Training I attended was too disjointed. The instructors were sound but the format used was poor

    P.S. I was asked by the staff on the course for my views and suggestions to impove it btw, so Im not just moaning :)
     
  2. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Bibo,

    In terms of the TA courses, the actual P Coy is identical as it is run over the same time (unlike regular with 2 distinct courses but to the same standard). I would suggest that doing TA Para CIC would give the optimum chance of sucess based on the build up programme. 8 weekends of progressive training geared specifically to P Coy, followed by the 10 days at Catterick prior to P Coy can only help the preparation, and remove some of the scare factor as you are more familiar with the events and P Coy staff.

    As I have said on previous posts, I am not aware of all the details of the Pre P Coy beat up offered by other units, but I would be interested to see how they compare. Also, I think it would be better to do P Coy with people that you had built up a rapport and sense of teamwork with, rather than the people you joined as a stranger on day 1 of P Coy.

    What did you feel was disjointed about your beat up?

    Duke
     
  3. Which route do 4 Para officers follow, if they are not commissioned from the ranks?
     
  4. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    All arms, but most train alongside a recruit cadre to improve their fitness (and get to know some of the blokes, get an insight into their training etc.)
     
  5. Ahh Duke.... I was hoping you'd comment.

    My Pre-Para beat up was 4 instead of the 8 weekends you mentioned. Also i guess the week nights were tuned to the final effort? This plus the CIC before?

    Also even though the staff on my course were good.... many weekends were not great mainly due to the DS not knowing exactly who and how many would bodies would turn up.... this would mean equipment (i.e. no weapons) and training areas and facilities were difficult to organise.

    Also the training for the events was difficult i.e. stretcher races with 1 or 2 people isn't easy!!! But as i said the staff did there best.

    I personally think i might have stood a better chance of passing if I'd had the 4 Para training behind me....?

    I'm bringing this up because I think people trying this type of thing should be given the best support possible....
     
  6. Ok This is Reg info not TA but I'm sure it will translate

    The AA P Coy course is generally considered harder than going through Para Regt, however I am sure there are many Para Regt guys will disagree, although they are the sdame tests the big difference is time, the Para Regt versionof course is wrapped up into training. From day one you are looking at P Coy at the end and you train to get there, the AA course however is much more compacted and this is where the problem lies. For Para Regt you build your self slowly over a long period, if you encounter an injury they treat it and you may still make the course, the AA course however you turn up, get beasted for Pre-Para then straight on P Coy, what often happens is you pick up an injury on Pre-Para which will fail you on P Coy becuase of the high impact nature of the course, injuries are always one of the main contributing factors to a fail.

    Now you can argue that the Para Regt route is harder as its more pain over a longer time, thats supposing that RA/RE/R Sigs/RLC etc training is a breeze, allI am saying is that you are much more open to injury on the AA Course


    As for Officers, they do the AA course, they used to wear white T Shirts and get tested on leadership as well, not sure if that still goes on, its not unknown for an officer to fail for not motivating the men enough on team events even if they scored well.
     
  7. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    [quote="bibo_boy
    My Pre-Para beat up was 4 instead of the 8 weekends you mentioned. Also i guess the week nights were tuned to the final effort? This plus the CIC before?

    ....[/b][/quote]

    Bibo,

    Fitness at least once on every weekend, often twice, building up to a standard test 8 miler, and a P Coy pace 10 miler to try and exorcise some of the demons before they go. Every Tuesday night includes a hefty PT session. This provides a progressive, structured (and monitored) build up, rather than hoping for the best out of 4 weekends and the soldier training in their own time.

    The CIC is hard work as well (all training is by the P Coy staff, so they are unlikely to be giving the Joes an easy time!)

    Wellyhead,

    The same theory applies to TA P Coy. Some would argue that it is not "easier" to do para recruit P Coy than All Arms as the standards are identical, just that you are more prepared.

    Duke
     
  8. Is it possible to complete the course from other badges from within the TA?

    I assume that you have to evidence a need for the training as opposed to just wanting to do the course?
     
  9. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    As I understand it, you can bid for the course, and there are normally spaces available. However, if you have no need to do it, you are unlikely to get much support for either your bid, or requests for training. Similarly, even if you pass, you will not be loaded onto a wings course to gain your lightbulb. If you want to do P Coy, transfer to an airborne roled unit where you will get the required training, support, and bid priority for the courses.

    Duke
     
  10. Cheers, to be honest it would be to get more experience of Inf work really more than anything, we do hardly any inf type training however when some of the lads went out in the early days of telic they found that inf skills were top of the ladder.
     
  11. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Securit, P Coy will give you no experience of Inf work. It will give you great experience of tabbing, tabbing, tabbing, running with logs and stretchers, milling...oh, and some more tabbing.

    Good fun, but no inf work.
     
  12. Don't suppose you have any pointers then on what would be a reasonable course for someone in a none inf unit who wants more input on the Inf side of things? Any decent courses?

    Its really almost because the unit does not have the time to teach a lot of Inf skills, aspecially with it being a national and the fact that we come under AGC its not really a priority however we ae becoming more and more involved in attachments to front line units, mostly Inf.
     
  13. Commando.
     
  14. SCBC brecon or jnco's catterick. All the infantry work you could wish for in two weeks. Appreciate that these tend to be infantry only courses but there is no harm putting a bid in.
     
  15. If you want Infantry training, why not transfer to an infantry unit?