Papa Nazi at it again

#1
Wouldn't you know he'd have to piss off the Jews eventually.....

German Jews condemn move by Pope on Holocaust denier

Mon, Jan 26, 2009

Pope Benedict's rehabilitation of a bishop who has denied the full extent of the Holocaust is a slap in the face for the Jewish community, especially coming from a German pope, Germany's Central Council of Jews said today.

"It's a deep shock," Dieter Graumann, the Council's vice-president, said. "I'm not imputing bad intentions to the

Vatican or the pope, but in fact this is a slap in the face for the Jewish community." "It's a provocation and I'm worried that dialogue between Jews and Catholics will now be frozen to some extent, that the process of reconciliation that has advanced so much over the past 50 years will be interrupted, if not aborted."

Pope Benedict on Saturday rehabilitated four traditionalist bishops who lead the far-right Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), which has about 600,000 members and rejects modernisations of Roman Catholic worship and doctrine.

One of the four, British-born Richard Williamson, has made statements denying the full extent of the Nazi Holocaust of European Jews, as accepted by mainstream historians.

"Especially from a German pope, I would have expected more understanding and sensitivity," Graumann said. "The fact that this comes from a German pope leaves a certain taste and provokes certain feelings." In comments to Swedish television broadcast and widely available on the Internet, Williamson has said: "I believe there were no gas chambers".

He said up to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi camps, rather than the 6 million widely accepted.

Mr Graumann said it had taken a long time and much effort to strengthen dialogue between Jewish and Catholic communities over the past decades, adding Pope Benedict's predecessor John Paul II had moved the process forward significantly.

"This dialogue is being overshadowed by what has happened," he said. "Those who rehabilitate anti-Semites are ... bringing anti-Semitism back into the church to some extent." "It's without bad intentions but that's the actual effect," he said.

The four traditionalist bishops were thrown out of the Roman Catholic Church in 1988 for being ordained without Vatican permission. The Vatican said the excommunications were lifted after the bishops affirmed their willingness to accept Church teachings and papal authority.

Reuters

© 2009 irishtimes.com
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#2
Merkel asks pope to clarify stance over Holocaust

DEREK SCALLY in Berlin

Wed, Feb 04, 2009

CHANCELLOR ANGELA Merkel has asked Pope Benedict XVI to clarify the Catholic Church’s position over the rehabilitation of the Holocaust-denying bishop Richard Williamson.

Dr Merkel’s intervention follows an admission by Cardinal Karl Lehmann, former head of the German bishops’ conference, that the episode was a “catastrophe”.

The German leader said she was taking the unusual step of commenting on internal church matters because it involved a “question of principle, that through a decision of the Vatican the impression is created that denial of the Holocaust is permissible”.

“That cannot be left without consequences,” she said yesterday. In her view, the Vatican had “not done enough to date” to clarify its position on Holocaust denial and its relations with Judaism.

The German leader suggested that the Bavarian-born pontiff “make very clear that there can be no denial”.

After Swedish television broadcast an interview with Bishop Williamson, in which he questioned the death of six million Jews in the Holocaust and denied the existence of Nazi gas chambers, leaders of Germany’s Jewish community put relations with the Vatican on ice.

Cardinal Walter Kasper, Vatican co-ordinator of Jewish-Catholic relations, has admitted the pope’s decision to lift the excommunication of several bishops including Bishop Williamson was “badly mishandled”.

“There wasn’t enough talking with each other in the Vatican and there are no longer checks to see where problems could arise,” said Cardinal Kasper on Vatican Radio’s German-language service.

In a frank interview, Cardinal Kasper said the debate filled him with “great concern” and blamed “misunderstandings and management errors in the curia”.

No senior church figures in Germany have dared criticise the Bavarian-born pontiff directly, but many bishops suggest in public that he was poorly advised.

They spoke out over the weekend, calling for swift action to prevent permanent damage to the church’s credibility.

Bishop Gebhard Fürst of Rottenburg-Stuttgart called the rehabilitation a “betrayal of trust, especially for our Jewish sisters and brothers in their relationship to the church”.

“As a Protestant Christian,” said Dr Merkel, “it is encouraging to see many voices from the Catholic church demanding clarification.”

Leading conservatives in the German church point out that the pope’s decree is the start and not the conclusion of a Vatican reconciliation with the followers of Marcel Lefebvre, who rejected the modernising reforms of the Second Vatican Council and are members of the Society of St Pius X (SSPX).

Bishop Williamson has described the pope’s decree to lift the excommunication as “a great step forward for the church without being a betrayal on the part of the SSPX”.

Fr Eberhard von Gemmingen, head of the Vatican’s German service, has described the episode as a “misunderstanding and debacle”. He urged listeners to “pray for the pope and his staff”.

© 2009 The Irish Times
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#4
Kuntz, all of them.
 

BiscuitsAB

LE
Moderator
#6
The Pope Didn't swear alligence to Hitler and the Nazi party, No he didn't, no really he didn't, no he.. ok maybe he did but he had to do it because everyone had to be in the Hitler youth and everyone had to be a party member but he only did it because everyone else did! So its ok because everyone else did it to..... Fcuk me whats that ahead ?oh a big steep hill and it looks very slippery!

And pope Pius XII Did not make a deal with the Nazis to protect the vatican from being cleaned out. Oh no he didn't.
 
#7
Don't forget his service as a teenage cloudpuncher.

In fairness to Pius: for most of 1944 when he was walking around the Vatican he was rubbing shoulders with escaped Allied POWs and Jews. Also, he gave orders for the Palatine Guard to be armed for the first time since 1870, causing several clashes with Nazis and their Italian allies.
 
#8
In the Pope's haste to ' reconcile' the ultra-conservative traditionalist splinter group to the 'mainstream' in a move to ' ecumenism ' [ i.e, everyone under one banner - the VaticanRC flag ] Benedict gave out the gold star to Bishop Williamson without slapping a gag order on him or getting an official - I misspoke before and don't hold to those ideas anymore ' declaration from him before lifting his ex-communication and welcoming him [ and the legion of fee-paying followers ] back into the fold.

No doubt some unnamed Vatican ' officials' will be falling on swords or whatever the ecclesiastical equivalent is... Get thee to a nunnery? withdrawing to a contemplative order/cloister? after all its all their fault for not dotting i's and crossing t's and getting a good conduct agreement signed in holy water, wasn't it?.. Not Benedict's fault.. he's Pope and we all know Popes are infallible.
 
#9
HarryPalmer said:
Don't forget his service as a teenage cloudpuncher.

In fairness to Pius: for most of 1944 when he was walking around the Vatican he was rubbing shoulders with escaped Allied POWs and Jews. Also, he gave orders for the Palatine Guard to be armed for the first time since 1870, causing several clashes with Nazis and their Italian allies.
yer, he did a mega U turn the moment the Allies landed in Italy
 
#10
Not that big a change of position, really. Now he's pissing off the Jews; 60 years ago he wouldn't have pissed on them
 
#11
Williamson was excommunicated in the first place because he belonged to the 'Society of St Pius X' (SSPX).
This lot represent the 'High Church' of the Roman Catholics and have been on the Vatican proscribed list for a long time.
SSPX split with Pope Paul VI in the 70's because they saw him as way too liberal especially following Vatican II, in short they are uncompromising Christian fundamentalists and are very right wing and equally reactionary.
Benedict knows exactly what SSPX represent and whilst Williamsons views should not come as too much of a surprise I am a bit dismayed that he let him back into Communion again.
Benedict has made it known in the past that he would rather have a much smaller RC Church that obeyed RC dogma than a big one of disobedient people.
So legitimising and inviting SSPX back could be an indication of Benedicts future plans for Catholicism.

I reckon Benedict has dropped a right fecking clanger here and his ancestry does'nt help one bit.

Never liked the bloke meself...................
 
#14
Come on...

...Are you telling me none of you had a good hand in poker and never let it go when you where beaten by a NIG with a lucky hand???

No matter who was right, or wrong, YOU WERE RIGHT, and it wasn't only luck that you ending up on a winning hand, in the end.

No no no, you were right, and after many hands later, you are the the one with all the chips.




So, the Pope, may have been a tadge on the nazi side, but, after playing his cards in a different game, he wins.

And... if you won, wouldn't you still say what you did was right???







Still, the popes a bit of a arse, isn't he?
 
#16
I think I fully gave up on the 4 x2 s with this one. Cinema advert against the Euro, featuring Rik Mayall dressed as Hilter, chucking off the old Nazi "LOOK, There's a plane" salute and saying Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Euro, in a campaign against us joining the Single Currency. The "Board of Deputies of British Jews" ( who the fcuk do they think they are? along with the Muslim Parliament of the UK - fcuk me, I'd love to see the UK parliament of Saudi) said this was an affront to Holocaust victims. And Mel Brookes dressed as Hitler isn't? Oh Fcuk off before we stick you where you belong. Current economical troubles...name a CEO who isn't a 4 x 2 when it comes to the financial sector. Was that gas I can smell round Stamford Hill?
 
#17
scrofula said:
I think I fully gave up on the 4 x2 s with this one. Cinema advert against the Euro, featuring Rik Mayall dressed as Hilter, chucking off the old Nazi "LOOK, There's a plane" salute and saying Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Euro, in a campaign against us joining the Single Currency. The "Board of Deputies of British Jews" ( who the fcuk do they think they are? along with the Muslim Parliament of the UK - fcuk me, I'd love to see the UK parliament of Saudi) said this was an affront to Holocaust victims. And Mel Brookes dressed as Hitler isn't? Oh Fcuk off before we stick you where you belong. Current economical troubles...name a CEO who isn't a 4 x 2 when it comes to the financial sector. Was that gas I can smell round Stamford Hill?
thug
 
#19
No surprise that coming out of the Vatican. I'm sure they have a few swastika's lying around the place, left over from the 'good old days' when they had to quickly replace them with allied flags in time for our arrival. Ah Hitler would be happy to know Vatican City hasn't changed a bit...
 
#20
Sorry to be pedantic, read your history. The Vatican was surrounded and an ultimatum was given. shut up or man up Mr Pope. Strange stuff, history. Note that there was a British SS unit, but not a Tibetan one.
 

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