PAP 10 again

Discussion in 'Armed Forces Pension Scheme' started by truered.nik, Jul 23, 2012.

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  1. Sorry if this has been beaten to death but i have been told that i am subject to pap 10 action which could result in me being "admin Discharged due to medical grounds" due to 3 discs gone and worn joints in my back

    My unit has applied for an appendix 8 but this i have been told will be 50-50

    I have now served 20 years and 8 months.

    Can people advise on what i will get if this happens and is there anything i can do.

    Cheers.
     
  2. Hi mate, have you applied on the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme? You may be due money and maybe a pension. I have had a double fracture L1/L3 fully recovered, 3 bulging disc L4/L5/S1 with back surgery on my S1 due to neurological damage to my sciatica nerve and I have not been MD or Pap 10 "yet" as I hope to make a full recovery.
     
  3. Thks for the reply.

    I am currently undergoing an appeal with AFCS as they dont think my injury was caused in service (Regimental sports event) I have the same problems 3 bulging disc L4/L5/S1 but due to the fact they as yet not impeded on my sciatica they are going to do nothing plus i have added problem of badly worn joints . But i am now P7 Perm.
     
  4. Read PAP 10 v3 & JSP 765 (AFCS).
     
  5. Thanks
    but was also looking for other experiences more so in my case at close to 21 years served.
     
  6. truered.nik,

    If you were injured during a Regimental Sports event, surely the event (and your participation in it) was on Part One Orders. If so, you would be covered. If not, you may have a case for sueing whoever organised the event.

    Shiny
     
  7. PRACTICE, PRECEDENT AND GUIDELINES FOR THE PULHHEEMS ADMINISTRATIVE PAMPHLET 10 (PAP 10) APPENDIX 8 REVIEW BOARDS

    GENERAL

    1. The PAP 10 Appx 8 Review Boards (hereafter referred to as Appx 8 Boards) are responsible for reviewing all Appx 8 applications submitted by units to DM(A) SO2 Discharges via the appropriate APC Career Manager. Appx 8s are submitted when a Commanding Officer requests the retention of an individual who is permanently below the minimum medical retention standard for their Arm or Service.

    AIM

    2. This instruction sets out the Practice, Precedent and Guidelines (PP&G) for preparation and the conduct of Appx 8 Boards. Periodically, it will be updated and re-issued as necessary.

    BOARD COMPOSITION

    3. Appx 8 Boards will consist of a voting President, at least two other voting Members from the list below depending on availability, and a Secretary (voting member). There must be a member of Soldier Policy Branch present at each Board. All staff are members of the DM(A) and membership is as follows:

    President: SO1 Employment Plans

    Members: SO1 Soldiers
    SO1 Manpower Plans
    SO2 Capability Development
    SO2 Soldiers
    SO2(1) Soldier Policy
    SO2 Manpower Plans
    SO2 TOS (4)

    Secretary: DM(A) SO2 Discharges

    4. If SO1 Employment Plans is unavailable, SO2 Capability Development may deputise as President. In the extreme, any SO2 within Manning Branch in DM(A) may sit as a stand-in member.

    FREQUENCY OF BOARDS

    5. The Appx 8 Board normally sits 12 times a year, and additionally as required depending on caseload. The principle is to minimise the delay (usually 20 working days maximum) in a decision on an individual’s future to avoid uncertainty for the individual.

    PRACTICE, PRECEDENT AND GUIDELINES

    6. Responsibility of DM(A) Sldrs Branch. The Secretary for the Appx 8 Board is responsible for:

    a. The staff work and administrative activity that supports the conduct of the Appx 8 Board.

    b. The preparation of Appx 8 applications for presentation to the board, preferably a minimum of 2 days before the board meets.

    c. Recording the reasons for approval or rejection of applications.

    d. Promulgation of the decision of the Board to the unit, APC Career Manager and APC SO1 OH.

    e. Maintaining and archiving a database of proceedings for Appx 8 Boards.

    7. Out of Committee (OOC) Decisions. SO1 Employment Strategy is responsible for OOC decisions which will be conducted via e-mail, meeting the minimum board membership requirements outlined above. OOC decisions will be published on the database of Appx 8 Board decisions.

    8. Eligibility. Only individuals whose JMES is MND Permanent will be considered by the Board. The JMES must have been awarded/reviewed within the previous 12 month period.

    9. Criteria for Approval/Rejection. When reviewing Appx 8 applications, the following factors will be considered:

    a. The comments and justifications made by the CO and APC Career Manager.

    b. Employment in a worthwhile role now and on next assignment.

    c. The best interests of the Army

    (1) Contribution to operational effectiveness of the unit.
    (2) Implications for the unit of retaining or not retaining the individual.
    (3) Role in relation to operations and support to operations.
    (4) Manning in that rank and trade. Applications will not be deliberately rejected to reduce the size of the Army.
    (5) Preservation of opportunities for advancement through the ranks for others.
    (6) Operational and manning pinchpoints.

    d. The best interests of the individual.

    (1) Long term employability.
    (2) Prospects for promotion and full career.
    (3) ROD proximity.
    (4) Other considerations such as welfare.
    (5) Probability of making a recovery/upgrading.

    e. In accordance with PAP 10, no account will be made as to how the injury was sustained.

    10. Appx 8 Board Sequence of Events. The following sequence of events is to be followed:

    a. Unit CO submits an Appx 8 application to the appropriate APC Career Manager for an individual whose JMES is MND Permanent and who has been awarded/reviewed as such within the previous 12 months. If the last JMES was conducted outside of this 12 months period, a further review is required. The input from the unit must be signed by the Commanding Officer or in exceptional circumstances OC, if gaining the Commanding Officer’s signature would delay proceedings significantly. The comments from the unit must be comprehensive and include a realistic explanation of the grounds for retention and the implications of not approving the retention both for the unit and individual. This might include comment on manning for future operations and the knock-on effect on promotion for junior soldiers in the same CEG who are currently above the minimum retention standard, where applicable.

    b. APC Career Manager input. The input from the unit must be signed by SO1 Career Manager or in exceptional circumstances SO2, if gaining the SO1’s view would delay proceedings significantly. The comments from the Career Manager must state clearly:

    (1) Whether the application is supported or not with an explanation for the view.
    (2) An assessment of the implications for retention and the implications of not approving the retention both for the unit and individual.
    (3) An outline of the manning situation for that unit and cap badge in that rank and trade.
    (4) A view on employability in subsequent assignments. Appx 8 received by APC Career Manager and staffed, including OH input (note: Appx 8s without OH stamp will be returned by DM(A) to the Career Manager).
    (5) Other relevant information or context.

    c. APC OH Input. The APC Career Manager must ensure that the Appx 8 is seen by APC SO1/2 OH who will check that the JMES is accurate and make any relevant comments relating to employment and likelihood of recovery.

    d. APC Career Manager forwards the Appx 8 to DM(A) SO2 Discharges.

    e. DM(A) SO2 Discharges ensures that the Appx 8 has been signed by the appropriately authorised officers and has a stamp from APC SO1/2 OH.

    f. A minimum of 2 days prior to a board convening, DM(A) SO2 Discharges will ensure that copies are made of the Appx 8s for board members to review prior to the Board meeting.

    g. An Appx 8 Board is convened monthly, or more regularly as required, to ensure that all Appx applications are dealt with within 20 working days of receipt from APC.

    h. Cases will not be discussed until all members of the Board have come to their individual preliminary conclusions. Only once those conclusions have been disclosed, then discussions may take place. Views are taken at the board as to whether the Appx 8 is approved, rejected or deferred (where additional information is required).

    i. DM(A) SO2 Discharges promulgates letters of approval/rejection and updates the Appx 8 database.


    ISSUES ARISING

    11. Any issues arising from the conduct of Appx 8 Boards are to be referred to DM(A) SO1 Employment Strategy in the first instance.
     
  8. PAP 10: QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE TO PENSIONS AND COMPENSATION

    1. PAP 10 (para 1009) directs that units are to provide an individual with financial advice, based on potential career options implications, including pay, pensions and compensations, following a medical board decision to downgrade them permanently. It is likely that responsibility for providing this direction will fall to the RAO so the purpose of this guide is to provide him or her with advice on what should be included.

    2. RAOs are not Financial Services Authority (FSA) qualified and have neither the training nor the certification to provide detailed financial advice, so their guidance is to be limited to explaining in general terms what pension and/or compensation awards an individual may be entitled to and signposting him or her towards other sources of professional advice.

    3. When a medical board decides that a soldier is to be discharged the APC will inform SPVA, Norcross which is responsible for calculating the individual’s benefits. RAOs should explain to the individual that their pension and compensation award will be determined by SPVA using a calculation based on the individual’s specific factors and situation which may include:

    a. Routine Discharge (end of commitment or PVR), Administrative Discharge (for example, covered in QRs 9.414) or discharge on medical grounds (QRs 9.385 (P7 or exceptionally P3) or 9.387 (P 8).

    b. Attributable versus non-attributable discharge on medical grounds.

    c. AFCS Guaranteed Income Payment (GIP) – it is important to note that a soldier can be medically discharged for attributable reasons but not be awarded any payment from AFCS. It is also important to note that whilst the GIP element is always tax free there are differing tax rules and reduction rates for the pension element.

    4. To assist in determining what pension and/or compensation an individual may receive a flow diagram is included with this brief. RAOs should use the diagram to explain to the individual what types of award they may be entitled to but are not to attempt to forecast possible benefits for individual cases, which remains the responsibility of SPVA. Points to note are:

    a. There is no pension commutation provision for Service Invaliding Pensions (AFPS 75), Ill Health Pensions (AFPS 05) or GIP (AFCS).

    b. If there is no AFCS GIP award then there is no difference between attributable and non-attributable pensions and both are taxable. If a GIP has been awarded it is reduced by 100% of an ill-health or invaliding pension, which is for the same injury as the GIP and both elements are tax free. All other pensions paid in conjunction with a GIP are taxable and the GIP is reduced by 75% of the pension. The attached diagram demonstrates how the reduction mechanism works. Examples of the two scenarios, using purely illustrative figures, are shown below:

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]100% Reduction
    Soldier awarded a £20,000 GIP and is medically discharged with an ill-health pension of £12,000 (for the same condition).

    Reduced GIP = GIP minus 100% of pension = £20,000 - £12,000 = £8,000

    Total payment on discharge = Pension (tax free) + Reduced GIP (tax free)
    = £12,000 (tax free) + £8,000 (tax free)
    = £20,000 (tax free)[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]75% Reduction
    Soldier awarded a £20,000 GIP and is discharged with a normal pension of £10,000.

    Reduced GIP = GIP minus 75% of pension = £20,000 - £7,500 = £12,500

    Total payment on discharge = Pension (taxable) + Reduced GIP (tax free)
    = £10,000 (taxable) + £12,500 (tax free)
    = £22,500 (of which £10,000 is taxable)
    = approximately £20,000 after tax[1][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    c. Attributable injuries that occurred before 6 Apr 05 are covered under the War Pension Scheme (WPS) and the Armed Forces Attributable Benefits (AFAB). Separate guidance from SPVA must be sought in these circumstances.

    5. Outlined below are some examples of the most common type of scenarios that indicate the range and variance of awards (the actual figures are illustrative only and should not be taken as an indication of the payment for similar levels of injury):

    a. Example 1 – Admin Discharge. AFPS05 P7 20 yr old infantry Pte with less than 2 yrs service is unemployable in the infantry due to a non-attributable injury but refuses employment in another cap badge.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]Pension[/TD]
    [TD]Compensation[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]No pension[/TD]
    [TD]Nil[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    b. Example 2 – Admin Discharge. AFPS05 P7 25 yr old infantry Cpl with 7 yrs service is unemployable in the infantry due to an attributable injury (awarded AFCS Tariff Level 8 with GIP) but refuses employment in another cap badge.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]Pension[/TD]
    [TD]Compensation[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Preserved pension payable at 65.[/TD]
    [TD]Tax Free AFCS Lump Sum £60,000 in svc

    Tax Free AFCS GIP of £4,685 (reduced by preserved pension when it is paid)[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    c. Example 3 – Remain Serving. AFPS05 P7 25 yr old infantry Cpl with 7 yrs service is unemployable in the infantry due to an attributable injury (awarded AFCS Tariff Level 8 with GIP) but transfers to another cap badge and is retained in Service (with appropriate Appx 8s).

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]Pension[/TD]
    [TD]Compensation[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Nil whilst serving.

    Normal Pension rules when leaving.[/TD]
    [TD]Tax Free AFCS Lump Sum £60,000 in svc

    Tax Free AFCS GIP of £4,685 on departure (reduced by whatever pension is earned)[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    6. A key calculation is the difference in a soldier’s financial circumstances based on whether an injured soldier is retained in a unit but subsequently submits PVR/NTT, or he is not retained, unable to find alternative employment and subsequently medically discharged. These 3 options are covered below with comparisons between AFPS 75 and AFPS 05:

    [TABLE="width: 659"]
    [TR]
    [TD="colspan: 4"]P7 30 yr old infantry Sgt on AFPS 05 with 12 yrs service awarded AFCS Tariff Level 9 Lump Sum and GIP[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Scenario[/TD]
    [TD]Retained in Unit then decides to leave.[/TD]
    [TD]Not retained, able to get alternative employment but refuses.[/TD]
    [TD]Not retained, unable to get alternative employment.[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Type of Discharge[/TD]
    [TD]PVR/NTT[/TD]
    [TD]Admin Discharge[/TD]
    [TD]Discharged on medical grounds[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]AFCS Lump Sum[/TD]
    [TD]£40,000[/TD]
    [TD]£40,000[/TD]
    [TD]£40,000[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]AFCS GIP
    (Reduced by pension)[/TD]
    [TD]£18,000
    (£0)[/TD]
    [TD]£18,000
    (£0)[/TD]
    [TD]£18,000
    (£9,973)[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Payment on discharge[/TD]
    [TD]£10,302 Resettlement grant.[/TD]
    [TD]£10,302 Resettlement grant.[/TD]
    [TD]£29,919 pension lump sum[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    [TABLE="width: 659"]
    [TR]
    [TD="colspan: 4"]P7 30 yr old infantry Sgt on AFPS 75 with 12 yrs service awarded AFCS Tariff Level 9 Lump Sum and GIP[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Scenario[/TD]
    [TD]Retained in Unit then decides to leave.[/TD]
    [TD]Not retained, able to get alternative employment but refuses.[/TD]
    [TD]Not retained, unable to get alternative employment.[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Type of Discharge[/TD]
    [TD]PVR/NTT[/TD]
    [TD]Admin Discharge[/TD]
    [TD]Discharged on medical grounds[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]AFCS Lump Sum[/TD]
    [TD]£40,000[/TD]
    [TD]£40,000[/TD]
    [TD]£40,000[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]AFCS GIP
    (Reduced by pension)[/TD]
    [TD]£18,000
    (£0)[/TD]
    [TD]£18,000
    (£0)[/TD]
    [TD]£18,000
    (£7,205)[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Payment on discharge[/TD]
    [TD]£10,038 Resettlement grant.[/TD]
    [TD]£10,038 Resettlement grant.[/TD]
    [TD]£21,615 pension lump sum[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    7. SPVA is responsible for producing a benefits forecast, although in cases where the soldier is discharged on medical grounds it is likely that the soldier will only be informed of their benefits immediately after they leave the Army. RAOs are not to attempt to forecast entitlements other than to provide general guidance as per the examples shown. It is important when briefing an individual that the RAO makes them aware that the information contained in any implications brief is not a validated statement of benefits but a potential forecast based on the information currently available. Whilst every care will be taken to ensure that the information given to the individual is correct, the actual rates may differ when benefits become due and SPVA/AFCS interpretation of a situation may be different when reviewing all the relevant information relating to a case. Should a Pension Forecast subsequently be found to be inaccurate, the Ministry of Defence will not accept liability for it, nor will the Ministry be bound, by reason of anything stated therein, to pay a particular sum at a future date. Individuals should also be advised that if they decide to enter into any financial commitment based on an implications brief then they do so at their own risk.

    8. Other sources of advice which RAOs should signpost individuals towards include:

    a. The Services Insurance and Investment Advisory Panel (SIIAP). SIIAP consists of regulated insurance and independent investment advisers who specialise in offering services to members of HM Forces.

    b. Moneymadeclear. Moneymadeclear is an MOD endorsed service provided by the Consumer Financial Education Body which provides impartial information and guidance to individuals without selling any financial service products or recommending specific products or advisors. Moneymadeclear will provide financial information either over the phone or via the internet, and by early 2011 it is expected that a national scheme will be in place to provide individuals with face to face advice from an advisor. Once in receipt of this information, officers and soldiers can then make better informed decisions when consulting Independent Financial Advisers.

    c. SPVA Norcross. SPVA Norcross helpline may be contacted on 0800 1692277. Additionally, there is the SPVA Veterans UK website which provides useful information on pensions, compensation and welfare support.

    [HR][/HR][1] In most personal circumstances.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. EScotia

    Thank you very much for time and effort for your reply. i had found some of it but you have shown me a lot more.

    Again thks

    Nik
     
  10. Question, how much could, would, a TA solider, who has received injury's on TA time who now gets S.N.L.R pap10. pocket ?
     
  11. As you can see by the examples, if you are injured you effectively lose your pension.