Panorama Tonight - The Teaching of LGBT in Schools

Oyibo

LE
[QUOTE="Ortholith,

When some 14 year old boy walks into my room and tells me that Tommy Robinson is right and all muslims should be deported, do you expect me to sit there and say "Well, that's your opinion, crack on"?

When a 12 year old boy tells me that women are lucky to be allowed a job and should be at home cooking and cleaning, do you expect me to say "Yes, that's your opinion and totally valid"?

When a 15 year old boy tells me that "being gay is a choice and if they don't like it they should just choose to be straight" do you honestly expect me to listen to and approve that shit without challenging it?

.[/QUOTE]

If I had a child in your class I'd ask why the f*ck you are not teaching them the subject you have been assigned. They are pupils not students. Teach them facts and reasoning. When they go to university they should be taught how to study.

I'd be seriously pissed off if a child of mine had a teacher who put 'correctness' ahead of learning.
 
Yep, there's a definition for that already, "surrogate mother." Ie., They give birth but are not the genetic mother. I don't get it, this has already been catogerised and defined by better people than me. Why are you arguing against it still? And if trying to abide by established definitions makes me a fascist then, Sieg Heil!
I'm not arguing for anything, I'm just triggered to post. I don't actually care one way or the other, I'm mostly just trying to be polite by answering you.
 
Ortholith said:
When some 14 year old boy walks into my room and tells me that Tommy Robinson is right and all muslims should be deported, do you expect me to sit there and say "Well, that's your opinion, crack on"?

When a 12 year old boy tells me that women are lucky to be allowed a job and should be at home cooking and cleaning, do you expect me to say "Yes, that's your opinion and totally valid"?

When a 15 year old boy tells me that "being gay is a choice and if they don't like it they should just choose to be straight" do you honestly expect me to listen to and approve that shit without challenging it?

.
If I had a child in your class I'd ask why the f*ck you are not teaching them the subject you have been assigned. They are pupils not students. Teach them facts and reasoning. When they go to university they should be taught how to study.

I'd be seriously pissed off if a child of mine had a teacher who put 'correctness' ahead of learning.
Yeah, you're right. We can simultaneously brainwash kids into being a group of homosexual queer transgender weirdos while also just teaching the 3 Rs.

Have you considered that maybe kids ask questions during lessons that aren't neceessarily related to the content? Or that maybe we teach more than one subject? I have to teach 5 lessons of Personal Social and Health Education a week because my department is overstaffed. That means over the last year I have taught kids about drugs, sexual health, British Values (blame Gove for that abortion), democracy, the rule of law and personal finances.

I would much rather be teaching a proper subject but I get lumbered with this shit because no one else is willing to do it.

Maybe you should have some understanding of what you are criticising before you start gobbing off.

Edit - that's not even including the really important stuff, when a kid comes to ask a question outside of lessons. The proper, every syllable matters because it might be nothing or it might be someone trying to find a way to explain they are getting abused at home every night. Saying "**** off and learn the equation for photosynthesis" doesn't quite cut it there.
 
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Sonic67

War Hero
That's fine until there's a war and that lab and the scientists that work in it are all killed - then we become extinct. More than 99% of all animals that have ever existed are now extinct - humans will go the same way and life will carry on for some other species, until the next giant meteor strike wipes everything but deep ocean life out.
We have 7 billion at the moment.

70 was enough.

North America Settled by Just 70 People, Study Concludes
 

Oyibo

LE
Yeah, you're right. We can simultaneously brainwash kids into being a group of homosexual queer transgender weirdos while also just teaching the 3 Rs.

Have you considered that maybe kids ask questions during lessons that aren't neceessarily related to the content? Or that maybe we teach more than one subject? I have to teach 5 lessons of Personal Social and Health Education a week because my department is overstaffed. That means over the last year I have taught kids about drugs, sexual health, British Values (blame Gove for that abortion), democracy, the rule of law and personal finances.

I would much rather be teaching a proper subject but I get lumbered with this shit because no one else is willing to do it.

Maybe you should have some understanding of what you are criticising before you start gobbing off.
Yeah, you're right. We can simultaneously brainwash kids into being a group of homosexual queer transgender weirdos while also just teaching the 3 Rs.

Have you considered that maybe kids ask questions during lessons that aren't neceessarily related to the content? Or that maybe we teach more than one subject? I have to teach 5 lessons of Personal Social and Health Education a week because my department is overstaffed. That means over the last year I have taught kids about drugs, sexual health, British Values (blame Gove for that abortion), democracy, the rule of law and personal finances.

I would much rather be teaching a proper subject but I get lumbered with this shit because no one else is willing to do it.

Maybe you should have some understanding of what you are criticising before you start gobbing off.
You have my sympathies then. But teaching should be about facts not opinions - do you do that without prejudice?
 
You have my sympathies then. But teaching should be about facts not opinions - do you do that without prejudice?
Honestly, no. No one can. Everyone is prejudiced about something. I do my best to hide my prejudices though. If students ask my opinion I will tell them but I never put that out there as a default. When we got on to voting I was asked who I voted for at the previous election. "Anyone but ********" was the answer and it was honest, I picked the party I thought most likely to displace the incumbent wankstain. Didn't work.

For those lessons the general format is:
Open question to start - should the contraceptive pill be free?
Facts - the legal status of various methods of contraception and age limits (lots of kids still think you need to be 16 to buy condoms which is yet another reason for fact based sex education at a relatively young age)
Group discussion - should people have to pay for contraception?
By the time I've wandered around and played devil's advocate a few times they've generally got to a pretty heated argument
Whole class debate (using the most annoyed kids from each group) - they do this bit themselves and I just have to intervene to prevent chairs being thrown
Bell rings, reconvene same time next week for abortion rights.
 

Oyibo

LE
Honestly, no. No one can. Everyone is prejudiced about something. I do my best to hide my prejudices though. If students ask my opinion I will tell them but I never put that out there as a default. When we got on to voting I was asked who I voted for at the previous election. "Anyone but ********" was the answer and it was honest, I picked the party I thought most likely to displace the incumbent wankstain. Didn't work.

For those lessons the general format is:
Open question to start - should the contraceptive pill be free?
Facts - the legal status of various methods of contraception and age limits (lots of kids still think you need to be 16 to buy condoms which is yet another reason for fact based sex education at a relatively young age)
Group discussion - should people have to pay for contraception?
By the time I've wandered around and played devil's advocate a few times they've generally got to a pretty heated argument
Whole class debate (using the most annoyed kids from each group) - they do this bit themselves and I just have to intervene to prevent chairs being thrown
Bell rings, reconvene same time next week for abortion rights.
Sounds like teaching has become adrift. i.e. not teaching any more, but discussing.

If we take contraception as a case in point I'd want the pupils to have a thorough understanding of the science - barrier, spermicides, rhythm etc. The legal and ethical aspects are certainly pertinent, but pupils are there to learn, not to debate.

I appreciate that not everyone will agree with me.
 
I'd want the pupils to have a thorough understanding of the science - barrier, spermicides, rhythm etc. The legal and ethical aspects are certainly pertinent, but pupils are there to learn, not to debate.

I appreciate that not everyone will agree with me.
I agree with you. They cover that in Biology classes.
 

Oyibo

LE
I agree with you. They cover that in Biology classes.
What is your opinion on pupils being 'taught' subjective subjects? Are they science?
 
What is your opinion on pupils being 'taught' subjective subjects? Are they science?
What are subjective subjects? Not a pisstake, I've never heard it over here.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
Sounds like teaching has become adrift. i.e. not teaching any more, but discussing.

If we take contraception as a case in point I'd want the pupils to have a thorough understanding of the science - barrier, spermicides, rhythm etc. The legal and ethical aspects are certainly pertinent, but pupils are there to learn, not to debate.

I appreciate that not everyone will agree with me.
Except debating is a truly brilliant tool to encourage deep learning/thinking. When I was a student teacher (before I pulled the cord and banged out as it being a shit-show) it seemed pretty clear that gone were the days of learning all the kings of England in order and th dates. Thank god. Instead it was WHY Henry VIII broke with the church to try for a make heir, how that changed things, how things could have been different if queens were expected to rule in their own right. The detail may have been sparse but that history lesson I witnessed was better than any I sat through at school.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
And then you still need a male sperm and a female egg to interact. In nature only the strong and intelligent survive, if the gene pool only consists of the gay gene's nature will wipe us out anyway - we are going to become extinct at some point one way or the other.
Really? Because we have attested historical documents that suggests gay people that been around for millennia. The human race hasn't become extinct yet because ~8-10% of men exclusively have sex with other men. The earliest study of a "gay gene" (before any had been identified by molecular techniques) indicated that there was a genetic or hereditary component. And yet their was equally no indication that the phenotypic trait was becoming rarer (or more common). The proportion remained the same. Therefore there must be a positive selection pressure. And all indications were whatever the gene was, it increased female fertility in those families an awful lot. Natural selection plays no favourites. Removing 8-10% of males from the reproductive gene pool is a lesser trade off than an average increase in female fertility of 50-100%.

Regards female preference sexuality, I'm not aware of any studies having been done (not.my expertise or interest) BUT until comparatively recently the only viable way a woman could really avoid marriage/concubinage and being a (possibly unwilling) mother at some point was to take holy orders and join a convent.

Frankly the utter misery gay people must have had to.live through due to archaic notions of "normal"... Not being able to just be themselves? No one should have to live through that, and education has a roll to play is eliminating the remains of that prejudice. Predjudice that still exists even in a much reduced form. The pride marches are one attempt to address that, and good on them. Although I personally find them indirectly offensive: a group of people celebrating being "out and proud" is offensive to me because it implies fellow human beings in a supposedly socially advanced and liberal democracy are still expected by some to be "in (the closet) and ashamed" because if something they cannot change.
 
OED. But let's not worry about hijacking the English language eh?
By the way, any chance of this OED definition of a mother solely as the woman that gives birth to a child and nothing else?
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
By the way, any chance of this OED definition of a mother solely as the woman that gives birth to a child and nothing else?
OED Concise 6th Ed (1976)

Mother. 1. Female Parent
(adoptive) woman who has adopted a child
2. Quality condition, that gives rise to another (necessity is the mother of invention)
3. Head of a Female Religious Community

OED Compact (1979) - It may be compact but it weighs a ton

1. A Female parent
2. To take care of or to protect as a mother
2. fig Appplied to to things more or less personified, either with reference to giving birth, to the protecting care exercised by a mother, or to the affectionate reverance due to a mother
3.A woman who exercises control like that of a mother, or who is looked up to as a mother
4. A term of address to an elderly woman of the lower class
5. Obsolete scientific names eg Hard Mother, Dura Mater (part of the brain
6. Not relevent (saltpetre production)
7. Not relevant (Chicken rearing)
8. Cask for vinegar making
9. The inner bark of a cork tree

There are a further 8 meanings attributed to mother, none of which are relevant to this thread

I think that fits the context in which you apply it rather nicely, no?

Just realised that the Compact is actually a reprint of the 1933 Complete OED, so the meaning of mother to encompass a far wider range of meanings predates the birth of all but the most geriatric members of this site, which if my maths are correct are Swordman and Resasi (I may have missattributed Resasi, but it was possibly him who spun a dit about flying on an Empire Flying Boat at age of 10)
 
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endure

GCM
Blimey. If I thought that being gay involved so many dictionaries I'd have signed up as a breeder and banged Marlene like a shithouse door...
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Blimey. If I thought that being gay involved so many dictionaries I'd have signed up as a breeder and banged Marlene like a shithouse door...
What we have is classic cherry picking and resort to authority, which at closer inspection turns out to be utter testicles
 
Sounds like teaching has become adrift. i.e. not teaching any more, but discussing.

If we take contraception as a case in point I'd want the pupils to have a thorough understanding of the science - barrier, spermicides, rhythm etc. The legal and ethical aspects are certainly pertinent, but pupils are there to learn, not to debate.

I appreciate that not everyone will agree with me.
Human beings are individuals and we simply don't have the resources to teach, educate or inform on an individual level, to those who need help and spare the rest. So the system broadcasts its message on a wide band and inevitably irritates many in the process.

What especially irritates, is where some teachers use that blunt hammer to spread political, or social stuff and I would guess the original point of this thread seemed to be an instance of not just teachers following the curriculum but actively wanting to build a better world.
 

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