Panorama Tonight - The Teaching of LGBT in Schools

Club Swinger

Old-Salt
I am really struggling because of my own personal values on this subject based on how I was brought up. Because of that I don't know what to say on this topic, except that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Have the Muslim population got a point about objecting to Primary School children being taught about LGBT relationships? Are their actions and protests outside schools justified?

Has the need to be politically correct in every aspect of our lives meant that we can no longer speak up about what we think for fear of being labelled as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc...

Where is it all going to end and where do we go from here?
 
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endure

GCM
Did the programme show any examples of what was actually being taught or was it just a major exercise in pearl clutching? Was it full of facts or was it full of opinions?
 
Race, Sex, Gender, Religion etc etc, the world seems to be wallowing in a mire of "correctness" FFS there is enough grief without this shit adding to the woe.
 
Has the need to be politically correct in every aspect of our lives meant that we can no longer speak up about what we think for fear of being labelled as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc...
Everyone's experience will vary on this. However, speaking as one of those daft bastards who actually works in a school, I think it's pretty much right at the moment.

The big push where I work is cracking down on homophobic language which is no bad thing. I've caught myself a couple of times about to call someone a poof or suggesting they grow a pair of balls and changed what I was about to say. In a professional environment that should be just as unacceptable as casual racism. Certainly since I've found out a couple of colleagues are gay I've been watching what I say much more closely and applying the old "If I wouldn't say it to their face I shouldn't say it at all" filter.

Before the outrage bus gets put into gear that's not the usual story of "I need a safe space because someone called my dog gay" but a recognition that someone calling a gay kid a 'faggot' should be treated similarly to calling an Asian kid a 'paki' or a black kid a 'n***er' (used for an example, I don't want to go on the naughty step). Most kids (and boys in particular) have no problem shouting "that's so gay" but wouldn't dare shout "that's so black".

Contrary to what the Daily Mail would have people believe there is no agenda to make kids gay or force them to identify as some strange gender. What is happening is a recognition that some children are gay and telling all of them that being gay is not something to be ashamed of.

Personally I don't think that most of them know what the hell they are until they get to around 15 and even then they are so busy trying to fit in to the peer ideal that most of them would claim to be a cauliflower if their mates did.

People on the outside will always focus on the extremes and ignore the vast majority of what actually happens. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 

Club Swinger

Old-Salt
Did the programme show any examples of what was actually being taught or was it just a major exercise in pearl clutching? Was it full of facts or was it full of opinions?
I think it was full of opinions from three groups, the Muslim population, the School authorities, and the groups promoting the teaching of equality in schools.

As far as what was being taught, difficult to say, but involves the use of children's books to explain the topic.
 
I’m more interested in the fact we seem to have created a world where it is felt that kids need to know about this stuff at such a young age. It’s almost as if we’ve destroyed the notion of childhood and innocence.

I was taught next to nothing about sex, let alone sexuality and gender identity at school but I don’t think it’s held me back in any way. I was, however, taught not to be a cûnt and that has definitely served me very well indeed.
 

endure

GCM
Race, Sex, Gender, Religion etc etc, the world seems to be wallowing in a mire of "correctness" FFS there is enough grief without this shit adding to the woe.

Presumably these are 'correctnesses' that you disagree even though they're important to other people?
 
I’m more interested in the fact we seem to have created a world where it is felt that kids need to know about this stuff at such a young age. It’s almost as if we’ve destroyed the notion of childhood and innocence.
The reality is that the majority of children will have their own mobile phone in primary school. Almost all of them will have their own mobile phone by the time they reach secondary school.

As a consequence of that they will be exposed to a huge amount of unfamiliar concepts, misinformation and outright bollocks from a young age. Either you give them the correct answers or let them believe whatever they read on the internet.

Edit - and if you think you can control what they see on the 'net using parental supervision software, router controls and checking their internet history, you underestimate the resourcefulness and deviousness of the average teenage mind. There are lots of them and once one of them finds a loophole it gets shared quicker than a laminated porno mag in an 80's comp.
 
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Londo

LE
Everyone's experience will vary on this. However, speaking as one of those daft bastards who actually works in a school, I think it's pretty much right at the moment.

The big push where I work is cracking down on homophobic language which is no bad thing. I've caught myself a couple of times about to call someone a poof or suggesting they grow a pair of balls and changed what I was about to say. In a professional environment that should be just as unacceptable as casual racism. Certainly since I've found out a couple of colleagues are gay I've been watching what I say much more closely and applying the old "If I wouldn't say it to their face I shouldn't say it at all" filter.

Before the outrage bus gets put into gear that's not the usual story of "I need a safe space because someone called my dog gay" but a recognition that someone calling a gay kid a 'faggot' should be treated similarly to calling an Asian kid a 'paki' or a black kid a 'n***er' (used for an example, I don't want to go on the naughty step). Most kids (and boys in particular) have no problem shouting "that's so gay" but wouldn't dare shout "that's so black".

Contrary to what the Daily Mail would have people believe there is no agenda to make kids gay or force them to identify as some strange gender. What is happening is a recognition that some children are gay and telling all of them that being gay is not something to be ashamed of.

Personally I don't think that most of them know what the hell they are until they get to around 15 and even then they are so busy trying to fit in to the peer ideal that most of them would claim to be a cauliflower if their mates did.

People on the outside will always focus on the extremes and ignore the vast majority of what actually happens. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Nice post . Informative and true
 
9 or 10 FOC
Some of them, yes. Having spoken to a (female) sixth former a few weeks ago who had love professed to them by another (male) student I laughed a lot. Said male student is camper than a row of pink tents in Brighton at a Freddie Mercury tribute act and is almost certainly gay, just hasn't worked it out yet.
 

endure

GCM
Some of them, yes.

I speak from personal experience.

Having spoken to a (female) sixth former a few weeks ago who had love professed to them by another (male) student I laughed a lot. Said male student is camper than a row of pink tents
You're very foolish to assume that being camp equates to being gay. It often does but not always. Perhaps you ought to listen rather than assume.
 

Club Swinger

Old-Salt
Everyone's experience will vary on this. However, speaking as one of those daft bastards who actually works in a school, I think it's pretty much right at the moment.

The big push where I work is cracking down on homophobic language which is no bad thing. I've caught myself a couple of times about to call someone a poof or suggesting they grow a pair of balls and changed what I was about to say. In a professional environment that should be just as unacceptable as casual racism. Certainly since I've found out a couple of colleagues are gay I've been watching what I say much more closely and applying the old "If I wouldn't say it to their face I shouldn't say it at all" filter.

Before the outrage bus gets put into gear that's not the usual story of "I need a safe space because someone called my dog gay" but a recognition that someone calling a gay kid a 'faggot' should be treated similarly to calling an Asian kid a 'paki' or a black kid a 'n***er' (used for an example, I don't want to go on the naughty step). Most kids (and boys in particular) have no problem shouting "that's so gay" but wouldn't dare shout "that's so black".

Contrary to what the Daily Mail would have people believe there is no agenda to make kids gay or force them to identify as some strange gender. What is happening is a recognition that some children are gay and telling all of them that being gay is not something to be ashamed of.

Personally I don't think that most of them know what the hell they are until they get to around 15 and even then they are so busy trying to fit in to the peer ideal that most of them would claim to be a cauliflower if their mates did.

People on the outside will always focus on the extremes and ignore the vast majority of what actually happens. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Good to hear from someone who is dealing with these issues at the sharp end and your own perspective on the subject. I can be as politically correct or incorrect depending on the company I am with at the time; using the premise that if anything I say is likely to offend one person in the group, then it is inappropriate to say it.

Post military, I have been with organisations where Race, Diversity and Equality were promoted to the enth degree. People on the courses were terrified to speak up and say what they honestly felt for fear if reprisals later. So it kind of failed.

My own views are mixed, because I disagree with some principals of Muslim Society's beliefs, yet I sort if understand where they are coming from on this issue. I am sure it is not just the Muslim community who are protesting about this, it is just that the media are focussing on them whipping up the hype and hysteria.

When it all goes pear shaped the media will deny any responsibility as usual.
 
I speak from personal experience.
Fair enough. In my experience a lot of the younger ones (under 14) have no idea who or what they are and are more concerned with wearing the right brands and having the right hairstyle than actually being honest with themselves. I deal with literally hundreds of the little sods every day but don't get to know many of them well.

You're very foolish to assume that being camp equates to being gay. It often does but not always. Perhaps you ought to listen rather than assume.
I also taught both of them for a year. I appreciate that I am a horrible judgemental individual but if he's not gay I'll eat my feather boa.
 
Does he also drink this?

Bit too manly for him. He'd probably be keen on the bloke in the skirt though.

Yes, this is my 'safe space' where I can say what's in my head without getting sacked or sued.
 
If I were to ever get into a situation were say a female were to ask me if I had just assumed their gender, I'd ask four questions of them.

Do you have ovaries?
Do you have a womb?
Do you have Mammary Glands?
Do you Menstruate?

If the answer to all four of those questions was yes (assuming I got a straight answer) then I'd tell them I assumed nothing. They can identify as they want, that's their right. However I'll call it what it is, female! That's my right.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
With the number of suicides in males, how many are related to being gay?
How hard is it still for gay young people to fit in and be accepted?
We were taught about different religions and that’s probably all fairy stories but there’s outrage when people talk about real ‘fairy’s ‘?
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
If I were to ever get into a situation were say a female were to ask me if I had just assumed their gender, I'd ask four questions of them.

Do you have ovaries?
Do you have a womb?
Do you have Mammary Glands?
Do you Menstruate?

If the answer to all four of those questions was yes (assuming I got a straight answer) then I'd tell them I assumed nothing. They can identify as they want, that's their right. However I'll call it what it is, female! That's my right.
Hope they’ve not had a hysterectomy and breasts removed due to cancer then.
 
If I were to ever get into a situation were say a female were to ask me if I had just assumed their gender, I'd ask four questions of them.

Do you have ovaries?
Do you have a womb?
Do you have Mammary Glands?
Do you Menstruate?
Really? Or would you just walk away shaking your head and muttering "What a loony" under your breath? I'd definitely go for the latter.

If the answer to all four of those questions was yes (assuming I got a straight answer) then I'd tell them I assumed nothing. They can identify as they want, that's their right. However I'll call it what it is, female! That's my right.
It's your right to call them a trampoline, that won't achieve anything either.

For the sake of clarity, 100% of the people I know to be transexuals I've met have been whiny attention-seeking loons. That's only a sample size of 1 so I'm pretty sure there must be normal trans people out there (TamtamPWRR has their head screwed on for example).
 

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