Panorama - SUNDAY 30 OCTOBER / 22.15 - 23.00 GMT

#1
Documentary

Panorama

10:15pm - 11:00pm

BBC1


VIDEO Plus+: 108108
Subtitled, Widescreen


Troops Out?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4379650.stm

With increasing numbers of the British public saying they want a timetable for our troops to be withdrawn from Iraq, Panorama asks: is bringing home our armed forces now the right thing to do?

In a special debate from the Imperial War Museum, David Dimbleby hears evidence from experts on both sides of the current arguments and asks how history will judge the Coalition's involvement in Iraq.

Those contributing to the debate include: Col Tim Collins, Commander of the First Royal Irish Regiment during the war in Iraq; Dr Salah al Shaikhly, Iraqi Ambassador to the UK; and Susan Smith, mother of Private Phillip Hewett, who died at Al Amarah in July 2005.
 
#2
Tim Spicer! What? - Does Michael Gove want to lose?
Had to smile when Jenkins said to Spicer: ' You're doing rather well out of Iraq'.

Edited to correct the person cited.
 
#4
Interesting that the MOD, on being invited to join the debate, said that they would rather keep the debate within the dept!
 
#5
Gove v Jenkins?

I know who my money is on. That Tory geek with the funny glasses and gay voice needs a chat. The closest he has ever been to the sand was bloody Swanage.
 
#7
Radical_Dreamer said:
Missed that. What did he have to say?
He made three points:

Point 1. Abandoning our major ally, having committed to the cause, is not an option on moral or political grounds.
Point 2. I can't remember the detail, but it was along the lines of staying with the Iraqis until they were able to provide their own internal security.
Point 3. It is a myth that we are losing - Recent setbacks are being exaggerated because of the unpopularity of the original decision to go to war and, militarily, the campaign is on target.

Whatever you think of his perspective, it was as clear and well presented as ever.

Also on the programme were Patrick Cordingley (who was ok) and Jonathan Bailey (ex DGD&D). I didn't particularly get Bailey's point (GCO:minor edit). Perhaps it isn't just me.

Best wishes

Don
 
#8
As one who thinks troops should stay, I do think the Gove case - presentation and contents wise was poorly put together.
It just seemed rather whiney and rather flimsy- the woman from the Kurdish 'Government' was just appalling and for the the Iraqi ambassador to dismiss the murder of Almarah as an 'blip' (though understandable in the wider scheme of things) was rather cold hearted imho. He also seems to forget the numerous coups that follwed the fall of the Royals and it was actually the Bathists who created much of Iraq's modern infrastructure.

I don't personally buy the domino theory, that if we leave Iraq - 'Islamic 'extremism will spread.
I think it is important to distinguish between what we maybe seen as Shiite extremism (as seen in Iran) and Sunni Islamicism - joining the two together is just plain ignorant and could lead to costly mistakes. Also considering the make-up of Iraq, extremism of any kind is not really tennable. The Islamicism that we fear (the sunni kind) could spread if we were say to destablise Syria. :evil:

In addition I can't remember who it was but I think that person was correct to say that if we did leave Iraq (immediately) civil war could break out causing other neighbouring countries to join in, however saying that, I don't think such a conflict would spread but would be contained in Iraq.
 
#9
Donny said:
Radical_Dreamer said:
Missed that. What did he have to say?
He made three points:

Point 1. Abandoning our major ally, having committed to the cause, is not an option on moral or political grounds.
Point 2. I can't remember the detail, but it was along the lines of staying with the Iraqis until they were able to provide their own internal security.
Point 3. It is a myth that we are losing - Recent setbacks are being exaggerated because of the unpopularity of the original decision to go to war and, militarily, the campaign is on target.

Whatever you think of his perspective, it was as clear and well presented as ever.

Also on the programme were Patrick Cordingley (who was ok) and Jonathan Bailey (ex DGD&D).

Best wishes

Don
Thanks Donny.

"Whatever you think of his perspective, it was as clear and well presented as ever."

Wouldn't expect any less from Sir Rupert, or any different perspective for that matter! :wink:

Anyone care to shed some light on Gen Bailey's points?
 

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