PANORAMA - Monday

[mark1234]

Phil Shiners seems to be doing his best to undermine the British Army, is this not what the enemy seeks to do, if so he must be the enemy, anyone know where he lives, details of his family etc???

Oh well done, he'll f**king love that, now he can say he recieved death threats for investigating the British army, regardless of if you were joking or if your actually a member of the army.

Is it just me or do these left wing lobbyists and solicitors actually work with, or very close with the BBC , they have a voice out of all proportion and seem to be able to spout whatever bollox they like on the BBC, I swear they should give Shami Chakrabati her own show, for someone who's never been elected as any kind of public official, she seems to get more airtime than the PM!

Is it any co-incidence that her sister works for the beeb?

What I'm getting at is do these far left lawyers aproach the bbc with program ideas?

Make no mistake , this was phil shiners program, the bbc only tried to distance themselves from him at the end because of all the critisism they'd recieved in all the major newspapers , that's the reason they emphisised the program was still being made in the newspaper reports, to do some last minute distancing from phil shiner.

 

[ABrighter2006]

What I found interesting (maybe niaive) was the MOD's position in refusing Lt Col Nick Mercer from being interviewed on air in relation to the issues raised. Surely has Head of Legal out there, he would be the very person to be interviewed in relation to the 1 Div treatment of Iraqis, being the person writing the very FRAGOS and OP ORDERS communicating the treatment of prisoners.

 

[CombatCarer]

I watched the programme as well and found it 'rather interesting'. The 'facts' that I took from this were

Iraqi insurgents attack British troops and suffer dead and wounded. (If you attack a professional Army, don't expect them to wave and throw flour bombs at you, expect return fire and inevitable casualties).

Int requested that the bodies be taken in for ID (May have been some big players in amongst dead, which as always a good thing, whats the problem)

Some wounded were also lifted. (If you're going to hang around during a firefight and get wounded, expect to be suspected of being a combatant and taken in)

There was much made of the guy with the minor leg wound. (How do we know that was the only injury he had, as there was no post mortem carried out. Admittedly, 'a hospital scientist' claimed that there were marks on his neck, which was apparently broken, that he claimed proved he'd been hanged. However, this 'scientist' was his Uncle)

The bodies had been mutilated (5.56mm rounds tend to do that to a person)

Panorama stated that they had seen no evidence to support the claims now being made that weren't made at the time (so why devote a whole programme to it?)

As for next weeks trailer about how to deal with antisocial behaviour, perhaps they will conclude that its best to let these people carry on, or Phil Shiner will take up their case.

 

[Airfix]

The 27 mins or so of this programme which took over a year to complete shows that some of the blokes were a little naughty, we know that, we've seen the vids and the in the great scheme of things means little to nothing.

The only bad bit for HM Armed Forces and Sons as I see it is that someone at MoD forgot to remind the CoC that the 'Big Five' were not to be used, and when the Divs brief had the cheek to remind people, well, who listens to a lawyer in a war zone!

I feel it's worth having a trial or what ever over this crock of shoite to show it as exactly that!

 

[LostBoss]

Baha Moussa died in custody - knew that
Some youths got filled for throwing stones - caught on video - knew that
Some toms mistreated some iraqis in Breadbasket - knew that
Hooding and cufffing was common practice in iraq - knew that
Gun shot victims have chunks knocked off them - knew that

so then - what didn't we know

Some "innocent farmers" got lifted hanging around a feck off great gun battle and - got released.

If they spent a year making this programme what were they doing?

 

[MikeMcc]

Phil Shiners seems to be doing his best to undermine the British Army, is this not what the enemy seeks to do, if so he must be the enemy, anyone know where he lives, details of his family etc???

Oh well done, he'll f**king love that, now he can say he recieved death threats for investigating the British army, regardless of if you were joking or if your actually a member of the army.

Is it just me or do these left wing lobbyists and solicitors actually work with, or very close with the BBC , they have a voice out of all proportion and seem to be able to spout whatever bollox they like on the BBC, I swear they should give Shami Chakrabati her own show, for someone who's never been elected as any kind of public official, she seems to get more airtime than the PM!

Is it any co-incidence that her sister works for the beeb?

What I'm getting at is do these far left lawyers aproach the bbc with program ideas?

Make no mistake , this was phil shiners program, the bbc only tried to distance themselves from him at the end because of all the critisism they'd recieved in all the major newspapers , that's the reason they emphisised the program was still being made in the newspaper reports, to do some last minute distancing from phil shiner.

[My bold] Same last name, but apparently not related.

 

[mark1234]

I stand corrected, sorry about that.

 

[Ancient_Mariner]

There is but one fact to remember from tonight's Panorama. You'd have to have been listening very closely to catch it.

None of these allegations were made during the investigation of what happened. Tales of murder, torture and abuse only appeared after Shiner and Co pitched up in Iraq and started telling people that there were vast sums to be screwed out of gov.uk in return for tales of racist abuse.

Tell me ffs that Shiner isn't getting legal aid to bring these cases.

On a separate note, the Tories fired a very considerable shot across the bows of the BBC by saying that Aunty Beeb might not get the whole licence fee under a Tory government. Sky and ITV might get their snouts in the licence trough to make public service programmes.

This was more a response to the Sex Change Channel (otherwise known as BBC3), crap programming, like 'My Penis and Everybody Else's' and an obsession with global warming rather than bias in current affairs.

 

[JT67]

BBC at their best. Why do we have to pay a licence for such rubbish?

 

[Whiskybreath]

There is but one fact to remember from tonight's Panorama. You'd have to have been listening very closely to catch it.

None of these allegations were made during the investigation of what happened. Tales of murder, torture and abuse only appeared after Shiner and Co pitched up in Iraq and started telling people that there were vast sums to be screwed out of gov.uk in return for tales of racist abuse.

Tell me ffs that Shiner isn't getting legal aid to bring these cases...

The appearance of the programme being rather badly edited was, I think, a direct result of the fact that any 'factual' evidence (if there was any?!) was researched over a long period during which they discovered that all their work was quite possibly based on very insecure foundations, and then very disjointedly proposed by both Shiner and the programme's writers in what looks to me like a fairly desperate attempt to smear the Army again. The reporter did actually make one point in his question to Shiner at the meeting which virtually demolished the whole thing ("Where's the evidence?" -or words to the effect) but failed to follow up on it.

Kenya and the enormous incidence of Samburu rapes/childbirths all over again. Shiner bullshit, based on a personal political agenda.

 

[Grey24-7]

BBC at their best. Why do we have to pay a licence for such rubbish?

Becuase the government wont nut up and enfore the "unbiased" bit of Auntie's remit

 

[Wonk_Mog]

For the record it was NOT the British Army's responsiblity to interrogate terrorist suspects in 1971. This role was carried out by reservists the only link being that British Army premisise were used and soldiers carried out he arrests.

If mod wants to accuse me of racism let him publicise what I am supposed to have written and the site users can judge. He is yet to reply to my pm.

 

[hogspawn]

What would our forbears who fought on the beaches say if they knew what was happening today?

Thanks lads for giving your lives so we can occupy our courts with this ridiculousness.

 

[Mr_Jones]

DontDreamit wrote:

What's happened here is the Pan team have came at the investigation with one angle, realised its bollox with no grounds and then switched tacts.

Ditto.

All that fake vid-camera "reconstruction based on prisoner testimony" stuff to try and give it the weight the actual evidence didn't. Even the reporter bloke looked p*ssed off with the whole thing by the end.

Phil "I want to be John Pilger" Shiner will be a bigger hero among a certain group but it's pretty obvious he's just a political version of an ambulance chasing lawyer.

 

[DarkNinja]

Will the BBC make a programme on the 6 murdered MP's and how noone has been arrested for their murder?