Panorama Monday 15th July. "Broken by Battle".

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by AIR FILTER, Jul 9, 2013.

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  1. For those of you who are interested.

    Panorama on Monday 15th July BBC1 21.00-2200hrs entitled "Broken by Battle" investigates the true personal cost of war in Afghanistan on British troops, going beyond the limits of the Ministry of Defence's statistics on suicide.

    (BBC's listed description, not mine)
  2. There is a growing body of evidence which links the use of Lariam (Mefloquine) to suicide - RTE (Ireland's BBC equivalent) showed a Prime Time investigation into the high rate of suicides among Irish soldiers after taking the drug for African deployments. The issue is being discussed in the US also; SSgt Robert Bales had taken Lariam before killing 16 Afghan civs in March last year - US Department of Defense is a bit shy about answering questions on the subject as Lariam was downgraded from anti-malarial of first choice to that of THIRD choice in Feb 2009. The world's greatest living expert on the drug, US Army epidemiologist Dr Remington Nevin, refers to it as "a horror movie in a pill" and "the Agent Orange of our generation." He says it is a psychotropic drug with only incidental anti-malarial properties. Successive British Defence Ministers have refused to engage in any sort of discussion with those of us affected by this wretched drug (for fear of lawsuits?)
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  3. IIRC BBCs Watchdog ran a story regarding Lariam and its side effects......night terrors etc

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  4. From my own experience, and perhaps others who have been out there, most Malarials were binned as soon as troops got them.... I don't know anyone apart from myself who took the malaria tablets. I didn't find I got any side effects with them. I have had them twice now and no problemssSSsssSSs... (twitch!)
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  5. Is it still standard a coy medic in SL I was dealing with alsorts of fall out from it.

    i wouldn't touch it with a ******* barge pole.

    No doubt malarone is too expensive...

    Some one current will be along shortly to enlighten my lack of current knowledge :)
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  6. Being a medic and ODP I have a reasonable working knowledge of drugs.

    That's why I always choose to put my anti-malarials in the bottom of my Bergen where they are safest.

    Basically I didn't get on with them, nausea, nightmares that sort of sketch.
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  7. I had pretty much every side effect going (bar death) from Larium, and everyone in my section had some side effect or other. I was thankfully put onto an alternative... It makes you wonder whether its a cost issue or something darker.

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  8. Many of the symptoms of adverse drug reaction (ADR) to Lariam are similar to those of PTSD and anyone affected should have a look at Veterans Against Lariam on Facebook. Also see Remington Nevin's website and watch his short presentation videos on the subject. 42% of those who take this drug suffer "moderate to severe neuropsychiatric side-effects". This is anything from disturbed sleep, to nightmare disorder (very disturbing technicolour dreams usually of a violent sexual nature) to full-blown psychosis and suicide. See also Action Lariam for Irish Soldiers on FB, where you will find a link to the RTE programme. Colonel Ashley Croft, RAMC, has been warning the MoD/Surgeon General for ten years about this, to no avail...
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  9. Iron4tions, something darker is out there if you want to read it: Lariam is a quinoline. The nazis researched the mind-bending properties of these drugs in the 1930s and 40s and used them to try to create a "super-soldier" by divorcing the soldier from his conscience. Google the CIA's MKULTRA research if you're feeling brave.
  10. Now forgive me if I am talking out of my arrse, but isn't the programme about Afghan and Iraq? If so, Larium ( Meflaquin) is not the prescribed chemoprophylaxis of either Theatre for UK troops! And so whilst it does have significant side effects, is it really relevant to the context of this programme?

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  11. Not talking out of your arrse at all, drain_sniffer. Although Lariam does seem to be dished out to some units in Afghanistan (and the yanks certainly use it as poor SSgt Bales will testify!), it is certainly given for training in Kenya, meaning that about 70% of the army will have had it by now :(
  12. Larium was never dished out to any UK unit deployed to Afghan. The yank policy on chemoprophylaxis was ( is) entirely different to ours and anyone suffering with side effects in Kenya ( considering most never actually took it, which is why up until my retirement in 2011 we continued to see cases return with Malaria) was given alternative treatments. Whilst Mefloquine does undoubtedly have issues, I think you would do the programme and its aims a disservice to focus the thread purely in that direction. Just my opinion

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  13. drain_sniffer, mine is just another view. But as you will see from other posts, Lariam does cause psychosis; does prompt "suicide ideation" (Roche had to add this to its warning leaflet in, I think, 2002) and symptoms of ADR are very similar to those of PTSD. All I am saying is that the cause of the mental breakdown or suicide should be properly established. Too convenient for the MoD to wring its hands and say that the cause is PTSD when it might well be a dangerous drug that they have administered to their troops. And what's worse, administered it in the full knowledge that it is, in some cases, lethal.
  14. Extract from Wikipedia regarding the use of Lariam in the United States military ...... Doesn't sound too healthy!

    [I Quote]

    "On 2 February 2009, Lieutenant General Eric Schoomaker, Army Surgeon General, issued the following directive:
    "In areas where doxycycline and mefloquine are equally efficacious in preventing malaria, doxycycline is the drug of choice. Mefloquine should only be used for personnel with contraindications to doxycycline and who do not have any contraindications to the use of mefloquine . . . . Mefloquine should not be given to soldiers with recent history of traumatic brain injury (TBI) or who have symptoms from a previous TBI. Malarone would be the treatment of choice for these soldiers who cannot take doxycycline or mefloquine.
    The following September, Hon. Ellen Embry, then Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health, issued the same policy, making doxycycline the antimalarial of choice across all the US armed services.
    The 2012 CDC travel yellow book was recently amended to include a section of "special considerations for US military deployments". It makes doxycycline the primary antimalarial prophylactic to be used for all military deployments. As a note of historical significance, Col Alan Magill and Col Robert Defriates coauthored this section. Both were the primary promoters for the continued use of mefloquine by the US military in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Magill is the former commanding officer of the drug research unit at WRAIR that performed the studies to find a safer version of mefloquine. Defraites chaired the investigation into the 2002 murder/suicides at Ft. Bragg. There, four soldiers were accused of murdering their wives; two of these soldiers committed suicide. Their actions, as well as other military suicides, have been linked to Lariam use". [End Quote]

    Anyhow, Lariam aside for a moment, It is indubitably a tragic fact of serious concern from any armed conflict when suicide rates of veterans post deployment exceeds the amount KIA on the battlefield.

    Just one veteran suicide is one too many, and this Panorama program is undoubtedly going to be uncomfortable exposure for the MOD and the establishment as the programme suggests that MOD official figures regarding this unsavoury subject are being massaged, sweep under the carpet and quite possibly are being deliberately covered up.
  15. Yes, Air Filter: let's hope one or two of the top brass have sleepless nights. The MoD has never been too good at reporting ADR to Lariam and it seems a lot has been swept under the carpet. If you're interested, do follow the trail back to MKULTRA. That's where the scandal really lies and the sad thing is that entities such as Combat Stress are probably well aware but prefer to treat ADR as PTSD and not probe the murky depths.
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