Panarama - A Good Kicking

#1
Is it me or do I detect a large amount of premedicated thought in this programme by the BBC. Given that the trial of the accused finished but today - this half hour programme had a large amount or reconstruction footage that in no way could have been shot today - call me cynical but I think this was a classic case of media hype because things did not go they way they wanted with the investigation and trial (the right and wrongs of which I will not comment), Funny how they also managed to include all other instances of percieved abuse within the same programme.

May be I am just getting cynical in my old age about the fluffy leftie, lesbians that run the BBC these days

Remember the media don't really care - its all about provoking thought, pricking public interest and making money (oh and viewing stats as well) - anyone who thinks they really care about the Iraqis are sorely mistaken.

Cheers

P.S The future piece advertised on AWOL soldiers... hmm they really don't like us right now do they! But we will all be watvhing to see what they have to say on the matter :)
 
#2
Baz44 said:
Is it me or do I detect a large amount of premedicated thought in this programme by the BBC. Given that the trial of the accused finished but today - this half hour programme had a large amount or reconstruction footage that in no way could have been shot today - call me cynical but I think this was a classic case of media hype because things did not go they way they wanted with the investigation and trial (the right and wrongs of which I will not comment), Funny how they also managed to include all other instances of percieved abuse within the same programme.

May be I am just getting cynical in my old age about the fluffy leftie, lesbians that run the BBC these days

Cheers

P.S the future piece on AWOL soldiers hmm.... they really don't like us right now do they?
I ended up so disgusted I turned it off. It was pointed, aimed, biaised in the extreme and probably very misleading.
The piece did not seem to accept a verdict from our justice system or many of the reasons many of these cases collapse; "victims" and "witnesses" being paid to provide "evidence" which later proves inconclusive or false.
Very disappointed with the BBC, they have stooped to a new low - something I thought not possible.
 
#3
Like I added

Remember the media don't really care - its all about provoking thought, pricking public interest and making money (oh and viewing stats as well) - anyone who thinks they really care about the Iraqis concerned are sorely mistaken.

Love it when the media try and take the morale high ground - like they are perfect - I THINK NOT!

Still more squaddie bashing because we cannot answer back - cest la vive - broad shoulders and all that :)

Cheers
 
#4
Baz44 said:
Is it me or do I detect a large amount of premedicated thought in this programme?
Which is exactly why I didn't watch it.

I already know the outline of the case and the outcome as of today so don't feel the need to watch ridiculous reenactments and half truths.
 
#5
Baz44 said:
Like I added

Remember the media don't really care - its all about provoking thought, pricking public interest and making money (oh and viewing stats as well) - anyone who thinks they really care about the Iraqis concerned are sorely mistaken.

Love it when the media try and take the morale high ground - like they are perfect - I THINK NOT!

Still more squaddie bashing because we cannot answer back - cest la vive - broad shoulders and all that :)

Cheers
Well, there's lodging an official complaint with the BBC, which I'm doing, not that it'll make the slightest bit of difference to future programming.
 
#6
Ditto

But curiosity meant I was mildly interested how it would be represented and it was certainly put in such a way that because they didn't agree with the verdict - they were going all out to make their point - only it looked more like Eastenders than reality or maybe in the BBC they can no longer tell the difference - after all it just entertainment to them.

Contrived to meet their own agenda! How does one get a TV Licence refund these days? :)

Cheers
 
#8
As I mentioned above I didn't watch the programme deliberately and because of that I'm feeling calm and logical :meditate:

However,

The one irrefutable fact is than a man was beaten to death in British Army custody.

And that disturbs me.

Edited to add: ref skynet's comment - I was under the impression it was 6 hundred not 6 thousand times.
 
#9
IT_Guy said:
As I mentioned above I didn't watch the programme deliberately and because of that I'm feeling calm and logical :meditate:

However,

The one irrefutable fact is than a man was beaten to death in British Army custody.

And that disturbs me.

Edited to add: ref skynet's comment - I was under the impression it was 6 hundred not 6 thousand times.
Agreed - but no excuse for a programme this poor
 
#10
Skynet

Come on we all know any trial these days military or civilian is no longer about the truth or British Justice - its about how good your council is at guiding you though the minefiled that is legal prosecution! May the best council wind and all that.

Cost £20M and who profited from that - The MOD - NO, THe Army - NO, The Iraqis concerned - NO hold on ta moment....... The Judge - YES, the LAWYERS - YES, The Media - Yes

Enough said

Cheers

P.S Yes a prisoner did die in custody and if guilty parties actions were OTT then they should be punished - but then the same should go for those who perpitrated the act that killed Capt Jones and we know that will never happen - its doesn't work both ways unfortunately.
 
#11
This programme has given me an idea for a board game for six players, similar to Cluedo.

The characters are a corporal, a general, a Labour politician, an MOD official, a judge and a defence lawyer.

The scene is a country manor house. The body of a servant is found in the study, bound up, hooded and tortured. When each blood-spattered character is successfully cleared of any involvement in the murder, it's the end of the game, and the purpose of the whole thing is to find out 'Whodidn'tdunnit'.
 
#12
frenchperson said:
This programme has given me an idea for a board game for six players, similar to Cluedo.

The characters are a corporal, a general, a Labour politician, an MOD official, a judge and a defence lawyer.

The scene is a country manor house. The body of a servant is found in the study, bound up, hooded and tortured. When each blood-spattered character is successfully cleared of any involvement in the murder, it's the end of the game, and the purpose of the whole thing is to find out 'Whodidn'tdunnit'.
Are you the servant? Please?
 
#14
No one said we are perfect most of all Us!
Its the media who seeks to make us out to be so at times and then also pulls the rug when it suits or they disagree - its the way its been and always will

Cheers
 
#15
I think before people start getting too shirty here they should wait for the judge's final judgement on the whole trial.

The vast bulk of the programme was based on evidence that came out in court. That is the only way the BBC could have done it, and they were right. I am not Jacko's greatest fan but he was very measured and absolutely right in what he said on the programme.

A handful of people did something appallingly wrong that shames the tens of thousands of soldiers who would not think of hurting a prisoner, unless of course you think that hey it was AOK to beat Baha Musa to death, or even to beat up the others involved, and someone did that. [The human choir was as bad as if not worse than anything we heard from Abu Ghraib.]

Who most of those people were may remain largely a mystery but it doesnt somehow mean that no crime took place and if you think that should be kept quiet and swept under the carpet then you should ask to be given a fresh brief on the rules of armed conflict.
 
#16
Baz44 said:
Skynet

Come on we all know any trial these days military or civilian is no longer about the truth or British Justice - its about how good your council is at guiding you though the minefiled that is legal prosecution! May the best council wind and all that.

Cost £20M and who profited from that - The MOD - NO, THe Army - NO, The Iraqis concerned - NO hold on ta moment....... The Judge - YES, the LAWYERS - YES, The Media - Yes

Enough said

Cheers

P.S Yes a prisoner did die in custody and if guilty parties actions were OTT then they should be punished - but then the same should go for those who perpetrated the act that killed Capt Jones and we know that will never happen - its doesn't work both ways unfortunately.
The legal system we have is the best, with all its shortcomings, the best we have been able to devise and is still one of the best in the world. Yes I agree that we should go for those who perpetrated the act and be careful that we don't get the wrong ones in the process or we will loose all credibility with those we are trying to free. Of course we should have never been there in the first place but that is another story.
 
#17
Only one fundimental flaw in the Rules of Armed conflict - your buggered if the other side have not read it or seen the nice new DVD!

Learnt that the hard way in the sand pit when some bugger took a dislike to us with an AK47 - when your response had to be judged as reasonable and justified 'in a court of law' - was easier just to make like a moving target and hope they missed!

But thats another story and I am putting the lamp away now :)

Cheers

P.S SKYNET - you are not a Judge or Lawyer by and chance are you? :) Of course our justice system would work so much better for all concerned if it was a non profit making organisation - but I am just a cynic
 
#18
I'm not going to comment on this event, but in times past stone throwers etc, were dealt with in a robust manner and then released, it seems that they are now expected to be treated as if it were in any UK town on a Saturday night and they should be dealt with like a scrote in the UK and appear before the beak in the morning.

Do the powers that be not realise the situations we are facing in the sandpits? If they are suspected insurgents why can they not be hooded, especially inside an SF base?

We are loosing the plot because of the agenda of political correctness.

Well thats my rant over!!!!!

All the fours......
 
#19
P.S SKYNET - you are not a Judge or Lawyer by and chance are you? Of course our justice system would work so much better for all concerned if it was a non profit making organisation - but I am just a cynic

No thank God I'm not! The one in the Former Soviet Union was none profit making! State control seems to make more problems than it solves.
Best wishes
Skynet
 
#20
Skynet said:
Rather odd though that during the whole of the trial the defendants said 'I can't remember over 6000 times?
You have got that wrong.... it was the prosecution witnesses from Lt Rogers multiple who said 'I cant remember"

and it was only 600 or so times

The defendants didnt have to say anything at that stage...

Are you aware that one of the high quality prosecution witnesses from the Rogers multiple was Pte Mackenzie who sold the fake pictures of abuse to the Daily Mirror? Why are you so surprised at the result.
 

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