'Pale Rider'- will the Spanish Influenza resurface

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Riddickulouse, Jul 3, 2017.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Iraq reports outbreak of highly pathogenic H5N8 bird flu - OIE
    H5N8 reported in Iraq:
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. The presence of Y. Pestis (Bubonic plague) DNA in Justinian mass graves is confirmed.
    Yersinia pestis DNA from Skeletal Remains from the 6th Century AD Reveals Insights into Justinianic Plague

    The other most likely cause would be anthrax.
    Symptoms | Anthrax | CDC
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  3. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    One more time: bubonic plague was well known for Medieval Medicine, and 580-year epidemic was not it. Turn on you logic:
    - August.
    - Mainly children were affected.
    - pain in rens.
    - general intoxication with meningial symptoms.

    Absolutely no chances:
    Such symptoms can be only with anthrax pneumonia and general septic - it can be only with breathing in it's spores - very, very rare situation in natural environment. Usual form (95-97%) in skin ulcii.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Lung form have a main symptoms pain in a chest and caught. Usually kill very quickly. For this form can be used specially prepared spores, as bioweapon (famouse "white powder"). Effective against any ages, including adults and children.
    In natural way, Anthrax usually affect adults, working with skins of animals, not children in big regions (like almast all Gallia) in one month (especially August).
    Even minimal knowledge of NBC enough to decline anthrax.

    Another attempt?
     
  4. Y'know we really don't need to see stuff like that in CA.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. No. The point you are failing to understand is that disease THEN is not the same as disease NOW.

    People in the ancient world lived in much closer proximity to their livestock all year round. EVERYONE in that period worked with and around animals, and often lived with them indoors.

    Anthrax is a complex disease, but a very stable one. Most of the symptoms for modern inhalation anthrax are as listed- nausea, skin lesions, fever, confusion and dizziness.
    The seasonality is an indicator of anthrax.
    http://www.who.int/csr/resources/publications/anthrax_web.pdf
    Anthrax is a seasonal disease. typically, an outbreak in an enzootic area follows a prolonged hot dry spell, which in turn was preceded by heavy rains or flooding, or with rain ending a period of drought. however, because conditions and circumstances that predispose to outbreaks vary from location to location, seasonality shows corresponding divergences from this pattern in different locations.
    Children who had not been exposed previously would probably be unusually vulnerable. Moreover, children were often tasked with animal handling duties, as they still are in pastoral communities in the developing world.

    Many people would have been routinely infected with cutaneous anthrax.( 'Leatherworkers' disease'. ) The question is under what climate conditions would it have begun forming spores, and becoming an inhalation risk. A hot autumn after a wet summer would be entirely feasible.

    There at also indications that that would have also been an ideal condition for Ergotism, a toxic mould that grows on rye crops, which could account for intoxication over and above high fever.




     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    Oh, Sh-t. The point your main mistake is somewhere in your DNA. Why you don't want to search for right answer, but preffer to defend obviously wrong version? Anthrax, by the name of "Persian fire" was well known for educated Medieval Europeans. And yes, first seriouse outbreaks of Anthrax were fixed in Europe since IX centure, not VI.

    Ha! For somebody, pretending to be historian mixing "Antient" and "Medieval" is funny enough.

    Sure. 32-thousand year old spores, revealed from the frozen mamoth corpse kill mouses in absolutely same way as modern.

    Most of the symptoms for modern inhalation anthrax are as listed- nausea, skin lesions, fever, confusion and dizziness.[/quote]
    And inhalation form is less than 3%. 95-97% is a skin form. Also, affectation of intestinum by Antrax (intestinal form, caused by eating meat) cause diarrhea. You know, that in late Antic and Medieval there were two abdominal diseases - "diarrhea" (anything with diarrhea) and "disenteria" (any abdominal diseases without diarrhea, including appendicitis and abdominal cancer). When we'll educated Medieval author write about "disenteria" we can be sure, that there was not diarrhea.


    And there should be fall of cattle and more than 50 causes of skin form of Antrax for one lung form.

    Ha! Seriously? There are no strong anti-Antrax immunité. Even after vaccination - one year only. For Antrax is absolutely indifferent age, sex and condition of infected person.
    Ha! May be, it was untypical siphilis, beared with Native American migrants? (Sarcasm).
    Another try?
     
  7. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    Sir, yessir! Sorry, but I can't edit my message, coz I'm on ROPs.
     
  8. And inhalation form is less than 3%. 95-97% is a skin form. Also, affectation of intestinum by Antrax (intestinal form, caused by eating meat) cause diarrhea. You know, that in late Antic and Medieval there were two abdominal diseases - "diarrhea" (anything with diarrhea) and "disenteria" (any abdominal diseases without diarrhea, including appendicitis and abdominal cancer). When we'll educated Medieval author write about "disenteria" we can be sure, that there was not diarrhea.


    And there should be fall of cattle and more than 50 causes of skin form of Antrax for one lung form.


    Ha! Seriously? There are no strong anti-Antrax immunité. Even after vaccination - one year only. For Antrax is absolutely indifferent age, sex and condition of infected person.

    Ha! May be, it was untypical siphilis, beared with Native American migrants? (Sarcasm).
    Another try?[/QUOTE]

    Yes.
    Anthrax was a known ancient cattle disease often known as 'murrain'.

    But as usual-you are failing to appreciate that it has multiple forms depending on climate conditions and that the human living conditions were different.

    Someone (likely an adult) who has been exposed to the cutaneous form will have antibodies. A child would not.

    It can, and has killed thousands of people under rare circumstances.

    An outbreak in Haiti in 1770 killed over 15000 people. In the correct circumstances, it is highly infectious.

    You really don't like being contradicted, do you?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Why do you waste your time engaging with him? Best he's ignored and then he might go away...
     
  10. He said he wanted to learn.
    So, I learn him.
    He doesn't like it.
    Strange.
     
  11. Ah but you see it depends on which churches you go to. Mainstream protestant churches such as Anglican or Methodist, etc. have Jesus effigies as white as you like. Roman Catholics on the other hand, are flexible on this point and you can find just about anything in skin tone when you visit one. The Black Jesus in Portobello, Panama is one well known example. ;-)
    Black Jesus of Portobello 60.jpg
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    I like it. You really increase my knowledge about potential of the British ignorance. Such kind of stubborn stupidy is something special even for Anglonet forums.
    And yes, now I have additional arguments for wide usage of bioweapon against USA and UK.
     
  13. If his script writers are wrong then maybe the Great Leader is wrong and we can't have that, can we?
     
  14. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    Murrain - Wikipedia
    There was no any "murrain" in the 580 year in Gallia.

    Ha! Stupid animal... Even you drop special prepared "white powder" on the unprotected forces - near half of infected will have skin or intestinal forms. In the usual life, in any weather conditions you can not get more that 10% of the lung form. So, you will have ulcii and diarrhea.

    My little civilian friend. Even good Anthrax vaccination can give you only one year protection. And yes, without antibiotic treatment cutaneous form kill men in 25-50% of causes.

    Ha! And how many of them were inhalation forms, and how many - cutaneous?
    I like when my interlocuteur try to discuss and give me some new information.
     
  15. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    Our Great Leader don't like biological weapon. Official position is that it can not be effectively used against NATO countries, because of their medical, scientific and education level. I think, and you prove, that modern Islanders are stupid enough to be good targets for it.