Pakistan

What, something like, say, Hate Crime legislation? It's already been rolled out here in J'stan.
Yes, the minister concerned seems to have shaved his beard off since his (alleged) anti-white rant. Maybe it was suggested that he reminded some viewers of a chap preaching hatred and dictating how people should live? Not that he was, of course not. He was just a bit emotional.
 

MissingOTC

War Hero
If Pakistan boycotted trade with us, would we notice? If we cut aid, would they?

Will not be trade, but they have some cards to play in Afghanistan, we need to secure a safe exit, and right now UK is on much better terms with Pakistan then the US is, to the point the US often presses the UK to get Pakistan to toe the US as much as they can. Not worth harming that relationship. Also I expect Pak could be a good export destination too. Italy, China and Turkey got in quickly with supplying Ships, helicopters etc In theory Pakistan could really use many UK defence products (the ones we still make anyway) and Pakistan really rates both British kit and training. Add to that it;s land border with Iran and new ports at the mouth of the Gulf, I would argue we need good diplomacy here, that is not often the forte of The Spectator....
 

MissingOTC

War Hero
Exactly what I was saying, here is CDS with Pak Army COAS in Kabul meeting Ghani yesterday. Picture really does paint a thousand words. No civilian leadership, Pak and UK together and no US CENTCOM/Chief in the room. This actually speaks volumes about the UK being more of a trusted arbiter then the US in Pak eyes.

1620681294684.png
 
Exactly what I was saying, here is CDS with Pak Army COAS in Kabul meeting Ghani yesterday. Picture really does paint a thousand words. No civilian leadership, Pak and UK together and no US CENTCOM/Chief in the room. This actually speaks volumes about the UK being more of a trusted arbiter then the US in Pak eyes.

View attachment 572343
The Pakistani's still love us though. When Osama got SEALed by Devgru in 2011 we had a Pakistani PCSO in Wembley Police Station who was ranting and raving about the US invading Pakistani Soverereignty. When I pointed out the British would have done exactly the same he said 'thats allright because the British would have been far more covert about it and not rub it into Pakistan's face.'

I did point out that it was their own fault for turning a blind eye to him being there.
 

MissingOTC

War Hero
The Pakistani's still love us though. When Osama got SEALed by Devgru in 2011 we had a Pakistani PCSO in Wembley Police Station who was ranting and raving about the US invading Pakistani Soverereignty. When I pointed out the British would have done exactly the same he said 'thats allright because the British would have been far more covert about it and not rub it into Pakistan's face.'

I did point out that it was their own fault for turning a blind eye to him being there.


Thing is Britain has had an up and down relationship with Pakistan but Pakistan does not consider Britain either as a potential strategic threat or dumping the relationship when it suits. The US have done this several times to Pakistan (1960s and post Sov withdrawl from Afghan in the 90s), that is still etched in their memory. By contract the Mil to Mil relationship with the UK has not been as high profile but has been consistent and never subject to any sanctions (unlike the US who slapped these on in the 90s).

Mostly relegated to training (Instructors at each others acadamies, joint exercises, cadet training, squadron exchanges etc), at some point Pak was using quite a bit of UK kit (Lynx, Sea King, Type 21 Frigates etc) and we did not leverage this. The US, China, Italy and Turkey jumped in quickly, although the training relationship with the UK is still much stronger then it is with any of those countries. Essentially we failed to push this up a level. I think 2 reasons for this, firstly we are now seeking a strategic relationship with India, so we need to temper our enthusiasm for Pakistan (although that has not stopped the US flogging kit to both sides), and finally, what is it we can sell anymore? Tanks? Combat aircraft?

We lost out on Frigate orders to Netherlands, Turkey and China. Italy bagged an AW139 deal so I guess a few blokes in Yeovil may have some extra time for a few months but that is pretty much it.

Britain really does need to decide how it wants to play it, especially now the Pakistan is firmly in bed with China. My guess is we will keep bumbling along at the current level, even post Afghan withdrawl
 

MissingOTC

War Hero
The Pakistani's still love us though. When Osama got SEALed by Devgru in 2011 we had a Pakistani PCSO in Wembley Police Station who was ranting and raving about the US invading Pakistani Soverereignty. When I pointed out the British would have done exactly the same he said 'thats allright because the British would have been far more covert about it and not rub it into Pakistan's face.'

I did point out that it was their own fault for turning a blind eye to him being there.


Thing is Britain has had an up and down relationship with Pakistan but Pakistan does not consider Britain either as a potential strategic threat or dumping the relationship when it suits. The US have done this several times to Pakistan (1960s and post Sov withdrawl from Afghan in the 90s), that is still etched in their memory. By contract the Mil to Mil relationship with the UK has not been as high profile but has been consistent and never subject to any sanctions (unlike the US who slapped these on in the 90s).

Mostly relegated to training (Instructors at each others acadamies, joint exercises, cadet training, squadron exchanges etc), at some point Pak was using quite a bit of UK kit (Lynx, Sea King, Type 21 Frigates etc) and we did not leverage this. The US, China, Italy and Turkey jumped in quickly, although the training relationship with the UK is still much stronger then it is with any of those countries. Essentially we failed to push this up a level. I think 2 reasons for this, firstly we are now seeking a strategic relationship with India, so we need to temper our enthusiasm for Pakistan (although that has not stopped the US flogging kit to both sides), and finally, what is it we can sell anymore? Tanks? Combat aircraft?

We lost out on Frigate orders to Netherlands, Turkey and China. Italy bagged an AW139 deal so I guess a few blokes in Yeovil may have some extra time for a few months but that is pretty much it.

Britain really does need to decide how it wants to play it, especially now the Pakistan is firmly in bed with China. My guess is we will keep bumbling along at the current level, even post Afghan withdrawl
 

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