Pakistan=World's biggest victim state?

#2
Come on,

You can't expect to be able to just 'notice' the world's most recognisable terrorist swanning around in such an exclusive area.

Now, about the aid money, small currency used bills please. Our poor* need money to live.

*nuclear reactors
 
#3
The Double Game
The unintended consequences of American funding in Pakistan.
by Lawrence Wright May 16, 2011

.......But, at this pivotal moment, it would be a mistake not to examine the degree to which U.S. dollars have undermined our strategic relationship with Pakistan—and created monstrous contradictions within Pakistan itself.....

The main beneficiary of U.S. money, the Pakistani military, has never won a war, but, according to “Military Inc.,” by Ayesha Siddiqa, it has done very well in its investments: hotels, real estate, shopping malls. Such entrepreneurship, however corrupt, fills a gap, as Pakistan’s economy is now almost entirely dependent on American taxpayers

U.S. Support for Pakistan: A Long Messy History : The New Yorker


But, the only country that finds Pakistan to be a victim is China.
Pakistan denies complicity
Criticism of Pakistan intelligence is unfair

In the second article, the Golbal Times however mentions - 'China, a heart-felt friend to Pakistan, has also suffered from terrorism in recent years. Its frontier provinces are occasionally disturbed by extremists from within Pakistan. '.
 
#5
I think its quite unfair to expect a poor nation, pardon, the worlds poorest nation,which has the worlds seventh largest military machine and all the trappings of a nuclear power, to know what is going on a few yards from the main gate of their version of Sandhurst, in one of their main garrison towns, but of course they will work on the problem, if we fund it.
 
#6
#9
I think its quite unfair to expect a poor nation, pardon, the worlds poorest nation,which has the worlds seventh largest military machine and all the trappings of a nuclear power, to know what is going on a few yards from the main gate of their version of Sandhurst, in one of their main garrison towns, but of course they will work on the problem, if we fund it.
And after some sulking we (well mainly DC) probably will continue to pour in billions of tax dollars and they (Pindi) will continue to redirect aid to their main concern (bashing India) and related goal (more Sharia regulation beards in Kabul) because otherwise things may start to get nasty (Afghan LOS shagged, no viable exit strategy, loose nukes, WWIII etc).

It's not unlikely Kayani and his knuckle dragging chums will do rather well out of this despite being caught red handed trading nukes, probably being complicit in 9-11 and rescuing AQ after Anaconda. They land a decade of multi-billion dollar appeasement and having their balls sucked by The Pentagon. I'm filled with admiration for the two face chutzpah of the buggers. We should start sending our guys to Kakul for basic deviousness courses.
 
#10
YouTube - Pakistan rejects criticism over Bin Laden raid

So, it is a failure of the world intelligence community?

Good one.

Pakistan has been given the name and addresses of many top terrorists holed out in Pakistan by India, they deny they are there as they denied Osama was in Pakistan.

Congenital liars.

Pakistan warns all that they will give a fitting response?

They are good at jokes. In fact, they have become a standing joke as a Nation!

Pakistan attaches high importance to it relations with the US.

Obviously. From where else will the money come to sustain them?
 
#11
Remind where the newsworthy items are again in there exactly, all of this old news, some of it is as old as Pakistan itself. Will it change you ask? Not until the Saudis are confronted. Pakistan is a proxy of Saudi ideology financed by the US. Has been for the at least the last 40 years. I do not blame the Pak military establishment for milking the US for as long as they can, there are tougher times ahead for these guys and they wont to ride it out for as long as they can. As for the civilian PPP government, whoever thinks they are in overall charge needs their collective heads examined.
 
#12
pakistan isn't really a state.
the various tribes hold no alligence to said state its only excuse is islam and thats no even a uniform faith.
As usual its the britsh empires fault the deluded fuckwits should have been told to remain part of india.
it would still be the embarrassing retarded province of india (bit like cornwall) but without nukes or the ability to start international trouble
 
#13
I think its quite unfair to expect a poor nation, pardon, the worlds poorest nation,which has the worlds seventh largest military machine and all the trappings of a nuclear power, to know what is going on a few yards from the main gate of their version of Sandhurst, in one of their main garrison towns, but of course they will work on the problem, if we fund it.


In fairness Sandhurst has an Islamic centre, three kebab shops and a couple of ethnic supermarkets even closer, do we really know what goes on there?
 
#14
pakistan isn't really a state.
the various tribes hold no alligence to said state its only excuse is islam and thats no even a uniform faith.
As usual its the britsh empires fault the deluded fuckwits should have been told to remain part of india.
it would still be the embarrassing retarded province of india (bit like cornwall) but without nukes or the ability to start international trouble
India has enough of problems as it is.

Let Pakistan flourish on its own.

It can be great country if only they don't think that their religion is the panacea, the Zam Zam, the elixir of life and the Horn of Plenty!

That way they would do less pan-handling and not be kicked around the deck as the international pariah!
 
#15
It can be great country if only they don't think that their religion is the panacea, the Zam Zam, the elixir of life and the Horn of Plenty!
Unfortunately the very people in charge of that religion in the region have differing views from you. And by default, nothing is going to change in the forseeable future.
 
#18
Am I the only one who finds it entirely plausible the 'stanis (irritating you can't just type Paki, like you'd use Brit, Aussie, Yank as shorthand) didn't know he was there. I don't know who many of my neighbours are. Ok, a bearded jihadi might attract my attention in leafy suburbia but surely if there's any place where he'd have blended in it's there. Though I doubt he went on shopping trips to buy this season's flipflops personally. Bloody hell, we've managed to lose track of a guy in a canoe and a race horse so we can't talk and no one's been looking harder than the McCanns 'n they McCan't find little Maddie.
 
#19
trouble is that house was on a watch list so isi ever helped him or were very very crap.
No real way out of this one.
 
#20
I'm beginning to tire of our hissy fit over Osama's very predictable domicile.

The late Bin Laden was a very minor actor in the last few years of the Pashtun war compared with Jalaluddin Haqqani, Mullah Omar and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. These Muhj veterans lead the three major Afghan Talibans. Only Hekmatyar appears to have ceased to be an ISI asset.

In Afghanistan we have clung to the delusion that Pindi interests in Kabul are somehow aligned with ours. They are not, any regime in Afghanistan that is not under the ISI's thumb is a bad outcome for Pakistan. The Qom and New Dehli friendly Karzai is a disaster for the Pak Military, this is encirclement. That Pindi has opted to fight a brazen proxy war with us while taking our salt should not surprise.

Pakistan is a substantial nation of nearly 200 million souls that faces the even bigger India. This is a unique existential dilema that a understandably paranoid Pak military attempts to meet with asymmetric methods. Faced with certain defeat in a conventional war they also cling to a dangerous delusion: winnable nuclear war.

Pakistan has been seriously destabilized almost to the point of civil war by our short sighted attempts to achieve a military victory against Pindi's formidable insurgent forces. An outright defeat of the talibans is probably impossible while they retain secure rear basing in FATA. There is no bung large enough that will cause Pindi to shutdown that safe haven. So our strategy, which unfortunately has been structured to serve domestic politics rather than our interests, appears to be both futile and dangerous, it needs to be reconsidered in light of a darkening regional picture. This can grow to threaten the entire Sub-Continent if we are unlucky.

After these long years pf appeasement Pindi must finally be confronted frankly but we also must consider Pakistani interests. Afghanistan will not be as much like what we wished it to be but this matters little. What is important now is avoiding a regional collapse. This does not mean a hasty withdrawal, that could be disastrous, the opposite in fact, going long and sustainably light. Only when it's clear to Pindi that it has no option but to tolerate our competition north of the Durand will they consider making terms.

We also need to encourage and support Pakistan's promising civilian institutions and make every effort to loosen the Pak militaries paranoid grasp on the country. Our tendency to sponsor Pindi's braided thugs and neglect what is good in the country has been part of the problem. Edging this nation towards a representative state that will rationally chose peaceful collaboration with its rabidly rising and far mightier neighbor.
 
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