'Pakistan is our Israel' - China says

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pp0470

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#1
Interesting. I wasn't even aware of the Pakistan/China relationship.

When a US delegate once confronted a Chinese diplomat about Beijing's uncompromising support for Pakistan, the Chinese reportedly responded with a heavily-loaded sarcastic remark: "Pakistan is our Israel".

But judging by China's unrelenting support for some of its allies, including North Korea, Burma, Zimbabwe and Sudan, its protective arm around these countries is no different from the US and Western political embrace of Israel - right or wrong.
China: 'Pakistan is our Israel' - Features - Al Jazeera English
 
#3
10 / 10 for barbed Madarin-speak (didja see what I did there?). The Chinese are probably the only nation in the world at the moment capable of reminding America that two can play at games.
Yes but what good does it do China to stand up for Pakistan? Whats in it for them (other than to annoy the yanks?)
 
#4
Yes but what good does it do China to stand up for Pakistan? Whats in it for them (other than to annoy the yanks?)
Naval bases in the Indian Ocean for starters. Then we've got China being invited in to the Pakistani bit of Kashmere to build the new 'Oriental express' (for freight) so that China can feed ever more resources into itself and stimulate the economy on it's doorstep. Pakistan also provides a neat little way of pissing off the Indians who, broadly by dint of still being technically at war with China (I'll leave you to google that) is a recipient of miscellaneous western bungs and tacit support - what do you think all that aid money is for? Then there's the proximity to Afghanistan, not only a strategic choke point but also confirmed to be sitting on a very very large pile of minerals and possibly oil.

China loses nothing by doing the above.
 
#5
Naval bases in the Indian Ocean for starters. Then we've got China being invited in to the Pakistani bit of Kashmere to build the new 'Oriental express' (for freight) so that China can feed ever more resources into itself and stimulate the economy on it's doorstep. Pakistan also provides a neat little way of pissing of the Indians who, broadly by dint of still being technically at war with China (I'll leave you to google that) is a recipient of miscellaneous western bungs and tacit support - what do you think all that aid money is for? Then there's the proximity to Afghanistan, not only a strategic choke point but also confirmed to be sitting on a very very large pile of minerals and possibly oil.

China loses nothing by doing the above.
Yeah, just pipped me. Pressure on the rival Asian 21st century superpower, a sexy port on the Arabian sea (Gwadar), and a strong grip on a lever that's incredibly important to Anglo-American security... probably enough to be getting along with.

The obvious counterplay is supporting Turkic/Muslim nationalism in west China, but I guess that's for the future.
 
#7
Naval bases in the Indian Ocean for starters. Then we've got China being invited in to the Pakistani bit of Kashmere to build the new 'Oriental express' (for freight) so that China can feed ever more resources into itself and stimulate the economy on it's doorstep. Pakistan also provides a neat little way of pissing off the Indians who, broadly by dint of still being technically at war with China (I'll leave you to google that) is a recipient of miscellaneous western bungs and tacit support - what do you think all that aid money is for? Then there's the proximity to Afghanistan, not only a strategic choke point but also confirmed to be sitting on a very very large pile of minerals and possibly oil.

China loses nothing by doing the above.
I already knew about China nicking Indias land, but I still don't think Pakistan is any great shakes, Its a Muslim country which may become more extreme as time goes on, It obviously doesnt border China so goods/trade has to be by sea or air. Afghanistan on the other hand is connected to China so it doesnt need Pakistan help in raping it. Does pakistan have any mineral wealth? I can understand Zimbabwe, they will sell out to the highest bidder, Pakistan just seems to be trouble further down the line. As Rumpelstiltskin mentions there are already problems in West China.
 
#8
I already knew about China nicking Indias land, but I still don't think Pakistan is any great shakes, Its a Muslim country which may become more extreme as time goes on, It obviously doesnt border China so goods/trade has to be by sea or air. Afghanistan on the other hand is connected to China so it doesnt need Pakistan help in raping it. Does pakistan have any mineral wealth? I can understand Zimbabwe, they will sell out to the highest bidder, Pakistan just seems to be trouble further down the line. As Rumpelstiltskin mentions there are already problems in West China.
ever heard of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?

China has. Pakistan is (or was) a major player in Central Asia; Benazir created the Taliban purely, bizarre though it seems, to secure the passage of Pakistani grapes and mangoes through to the Stans*- a big chunk of its '90s income. It didn't work out well, for us, or even less for her...

Pakistan may not have much going for it naturally, but it's well-located. Like Flanders throughout European history...
*OK, and for strategic depth.
 
#9
I already knew about China nicking Indias land, but I still don't think Pakistan is any great shakes, Its a Muslim country which may become more extreme as time goes on, It obviously doesnt border China so goods/trade has to be by sea or air. Afghanistan on the other hand is connected to China so it doesnt need Pakistan help in raping it. Does pakistan have any mineral wealth? I can understand Zimbabwe, they will sell out to the highest bidder, Pakistan just seems to be trouble further down the line. As Rumpelstiltskin mentions there are already problems in West China.
Yes it does.



The Pakistani ruling elite have continued to rule and have continued to accept the highest bidder. No change there and not much different from yer standard African or Asian kleptocracy. I would say that holding the reins of another nuclear power who in turn loosely hold the reins of Afghanistan, which is a stra . . . etc is enough to mitigate further trouble down the line.

China also shows little sign of losing her grip on her own trouble spots. Unlike the Soviet Union the Chinese are not driven by fragile (and often broken) ideology but rather by pragmatism. They threw the old communist bathwater out already but managed to keep the baby. The Chinese premier is the Emperor in Red.
 
#10
I already knew about China nicking Indias land, but I still don't think Pakistan is any great shakes, Its a Muslim country which may become more extreme as time goes on, It obviously doesnt border China so goods/trade has to be by sea or air. Afghanistan on the other hand is connected to China so it doesnt need Pakistan help in raping it. Does pakistan have any mineral wealth? I can understand Zimbabwe, they will sell out to the highest bidder, Pakistan just seems to be trouble further down the line. As Rumpelstiltskin mentions there are already problems in West China.
Not mineral wealth but Pakistan has water and I don't mean the present floods. China may well be up the creek without water if it's attempts to divert and dam quite a lot of it's rivers. Pakistan could well be used to replenish, resupply and steal from Indian rivers. Pipeline through Afg a possibility. Failing that it's the age old, what the fcuk do they want with Pakistan?:strong:


edit for spelin
 
#11
Furthermore... China's not a nation adverse to historical self-aggrandisement. We forget (but they don't) that Kashmir was a province of Tibet throughout the Middle Ages (and thus, to Chinese eyes, of China).
 
#12
#15
Aye, but it's only about 500Km. Hardly worth calling a border:)
Probably the most ethncally-mixed border in Asia: Tajiks, Kalash, Turkic nomads, feckin' Muslim Tibetan merchants... It's a whole new Great Game awaiting a player.
 
#17
Will this be storing up trouble for the future for the Chinese regarding their Muslim population? Would they feel duty bound to help their co-religionists?
The Pakistanis, I believe, regard themselves as being custodians of the purist form of Islam: Pakistanis of my acquaintance have a very low opinion of the Saudis
 
#18
Yes but what good does it do China to stand up for Pakistan? Whats in it for them (other than to annoy the yanks?)
The majority of the cotton used in China's textile industry is grown in Pakistan; a safe LOC from China's Far West to the Indian Ocean depends on a friendly and relatively stable Pakistan; Islamabad buy a lot of Chinese technology, particularly power generation (nuclear and coal); and of course it helps to keep India on her toes.
 
#19
Will this be storing up trouble for the future for the Chinese regarding their Muslim population? Would they feel duty bound to help their co-religionists?
The Pakistanis, I believe, regard themselves as being custodians of the purist form of Islam: Pakistanis of my acquaintance have a very low opinion of the Saudis
Islam in China is different in many key respects to that practised elsewhere, partly for cultural and partly for legal reasons. There are female-only mosques (their argument being that the Koran just says men and women can't worship together, not that women can't worship) led by female Imams; and nobody can officially register their religion until they reach majority at the age of 18. The latter causes a bit of resentment, particularly some low-level grumbling from the Saudis who'd much rather be able to export their own creed by indoctrination than have the local Sufi-inspired version flourish.

There isn't much in the way of evidence that the Uighur unrest is religiously-based instead of just more ethnic tension, much as Beijing likes to invoke shades of Al Qaeda. The first place the Uighur mob attacked in Urumqi in 2009 was the local Hui quarter, who're a Muslim ethnic minority famous in the Jade Dream's home province of Gansu for their baking skills, spicy noodles and bad relations with the local Han. It wouldn't surprise me if either AQ or the Taliban were slipping some funds and training the way of East Turkestan separatists, but the terrorist attacks in Xinjiang all seem rather home-made and amateurish, albeit effective in their own way.
 
#20
Will this be storing up trouble for the future for the Chinese regarding their Muslim population? Would they feel duty bound to help their co-religionists?
The Pakistanis, I believe, regard themselves as being custodians of the purist form of Islam: Pakistanis of my acquaintance have a very low opinion of the Saudis
And I think you will find that the Saudi's dont have a very high regard for the Pakistanis, or most other Muslim countries! Saudi is the epicenter of Islam and Mohammed (a Saudi) was probably the best Marketing genius of all time! By ensuring the religion he created had as one of its basic tenets, a stricture on every Muslim who could afford it, to visit Mecca at least once in their lifetime (the Hadj) that ensured a never ending supply of tourists visiting Saudi and bringing in subsequent income!
 

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