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Pakistan friend of the Taliban?

#1
From todays Daily Torygraph

Pakistan procrastinates

The deaths yesterday of two British soldiers in Helmand province are a grim reminder that Afghanistan is now more dangerous than at any time since the American-led invasion of 2001. A revival of the Taliban insurgency has led to the killing of more than 1,100 people since January, with most of the casualties being inflicted in the south. That is the heartland of the Taliban, who, with their al-Qa'eda allies, find refuge in the neighbouring provinces and tribal areas of Pakistan. As Nato prepares to take over from America command of all coalition forces in Afghanistan, it is imperative that more pressure be put on President Pervez Musharraf to seal his northern border.

Of chief concern are North-West Frontier Province, the tribal area of Waziristan and the province of Baluchistan. In April, America's prestigious Council on Foreign Relations argued that the Taliban and foreign jihadists had a freer rein in Waziristan than in Afghanistan itself. And, according to intelligence reports, Taliban commanders are using Baluchistan as a recruiting and logistics base and have created there a lethal new cottage industry of improvised explosive devices.

General Musharraf has stuck his neck out in confronting the Islamist threat within his country. But he is weakened by a lack of political legitimacy that stems from the indefinite prolongation of military rule. It is also possible that elements within the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence organisation are co-operating with the Taliban, a practice well documented by the Americans before the 2001 invasion.

Such double-dealing would put impossible restraints on Nato forces, which are struggling to reach their desired strength of about 16,000. No one would pretend that Gen Musharraf is not risking his life by tightening the screws on the Islamists. But the West has been indulgent towards his retention of military command and has helped stabilise the economy with aid. His part of the bargain is to deprive the Taliban and its allies of a safe haven in Pakistan. In that respect, much more needs to be done.
Is it time for us to try to take a tougher stance with Pakistan or are we p*ssing into the wind?
 
#3
What's got to be remembered that elements of the Pakistani government are as corrupt as can be (nothing new there-same as many other countries) and that parts of Pakistan such as the tribal areas mentioned are so lawless that even Pakistani forces won't dare venture into them.

So all and all, this story is a non-story to be honest. Well done the Torygraph, hurrah! :roll:
 
#6
We're not pi*sing in the wind, they're p*ssing all over us and the Yanks. They've got what they want in terms of the huge aid packages that have been afforded them by the U.S. At the end of the day Pakistan is a majority Muslim country. Even those that are not openly in support of the U.S/Pakistani government would sooner help out their Muslim Jihadi brothers. Yes, Musharaf is putting his neck on the line somewhat by tackling the extremeist elements in the country, but to what end? He is a MILITARY dictator right? ,he needs to be seen to be carrying out his duties as the man in charge and a General.
 
#7
Skinn_Full said:
We're not pi*sing in the wind, they're p*ssing all over us and the Yanks. They've got what they want in terms of the huge aid packages that have been afforded them by the U.S. At the end of the day Pakistan is a majority Muslim country. Even those that are not openly in support of the U.S/Pakistani government would sooner help out their Muslim Jihadi brothers. Yes, Musharaf is putting his neck on the line somewhat by tackling the extremeist elements in the country, but to what end? He is a MILITARY dictator right? ,he needs to be seen to be carrying out his duties as the man in charge and a General.
So what do you suggest, we all go invading Pakistan and rid the Taliban there too!!!.
 
#8
???? Not at all. That would be an almighty gang-f*ck. Just believe that to class Pakistan as allies is silly. As The_Matelot said, this story is pretty much a non-story.
 
#9
Since the ISS carefully selected who'd they funnel US money to during the Soviet occupation of the Stan, I 'd pretty safely safe that it's the ISS who helped create the Taliban. So pretty much a non story
 
#10
Why don't they use the MOAB bombs on the Taliban in the hills,They are vehttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/moab.htmry big( 2000lbs) and kill everything within a mile of the impact zone.
 
#11
TartanJock said:
Why don't they use the MOAB bombs on the Taliban in the hills,They are vehttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/moab.htmry big( 2000lbs) and kill everything within a mile of the impact zone.
I think you missed a 0 out of the Mother Of All Bombs payload figure! IIRFC, this is the beastie that gets hoofed out of the back of a Herc and does a daisycutter with 23000lbs worth of whiz bang.
 
#12
rickshaw said:
TartanJock said:
Why don't they use the MOAB bombs on the Taliban in the hills,They are vehttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/moab.htmry big( 2000lbs) and kill everything within a mile of the impact zone.
I think you missed a 0 out of the Mother Of All Bombs payload figure! IIRFC, this is the beastie that gets hoofed out of the back of a Herc and does a daisycutter with 23000lbs worth of whiz bang.
It is the very same one rickshaw.Even better with another 0 on it, kill more of the barstewards.
 
#13
The ISI have a long standing relationship with the Taliban, that can not be denied and I wouldn't be surprised if the Pakistanis are trying to play both sides but the main thing that has to be understood about this whole situation is that:

Karzai, the mayor of Kabul, hates Pakistan and in turn the Pakistani Government and the ISI hates him back.

But a couple of thoughts:

South Asian Perspective
1)Karzai's claim over the Durand Line (Paks are uber sensitive about this)
2)No one sees, Karzai as a long runner, western propaganda aside the Taliban still hold popular support amongst the Pashtuns.
3)Going back to the Durand line, a group of Pashtuns, who support the status quo is better than ones who don't.
4)Karzai closer relations with the Indians, Pakistans hate this and suspect that the Indians have been supporting the Sadars (tribal goons) in Balochistan using Afghanistan as a base with tacit approval from Karzai. The violence in Balochistan is threatening Musharraf's designs for the new Gwadar port.
5) Gwadar is Musharraf's legacy to Pakistan, he and other believe that a successful port in Gwadar will not only bring Pakistan economic prosperity but will add to Pakistan's strategic power, the chinese have financed the building of this port as apart of their string of Pearls Strategy.
6) A port in Gwadar makes it less likely that the Indians could destroy the Pak Navy as they did.
7) Gwadar is important and in a round about way Karzai is threatening this.

War on Terror Perspective

1) In the original offensive against the 'terrorists' the Pakistanis focused exclusively on Al Qaeda and the Foreign terrorists.
2) Unlike now where the Taliban and Al Qaeda are seen as being part of one organisation (in popular culture at least) in the minds of the Pakistanis and certain other elements this was not the case and the Taliban were allowed to drift away.
3) The US support for Karzai now means that the Pakistanis are being to forced to deal with the Talibans in the tribal areas.
4) The Taliban are often members of important tribes whose inhabitants live in both Pakistan and Afghanistan - so basically attack one section of the tribe, you attack the other. So the problems that the Pakistanis have been facing the Tribal areas.
5) Many in the Pakistani government do not see, why they should support the Karzai and think that the Taliban is good for Pakistan
6) The war of terror is not popular in Pakistan, its certainly not popular in the tribal regions - but saying that the tribal elders have brokered a ceasefire in Wasiristan.
7) The British and the Americans are forcing unnecessary democratisation on Pakistan, if Bhutto or Sharif returns then the country will suffer and so will the war on terror at least in Pakistan will collapse.

Ceasefire
1) The attacks on the Taliban in a converse way have strengthened the hold that certain Taliban tribes have on certain sections of the tribal region.
2) The ceasefire in allows for the Pakistan government to talk to the Pakistani tribal elders and re-establish links with central government and hopefully weaken the Taliban hold.
3) The war in the tribal areas between the Taliban and the Pakistanis has not been popular with the non-combatants being more and more frustrated with sides.
4) However the ceasefire also in theory allows the Taliban to focus all their energies in Afghanistan.
 

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