Paisley remains the bogeyman for this next round...

#1
As the BEEB states... what's in his mind?

Have met, heard and sat in his church... but Paisley is the enigma I once credited as a brave individual but as the years rolled by grew in contempt for this example of NI dinosaur mentality that holds the Province to ransom...
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#2
To be fair, as far as I know Paisley has never actually killed anyone himself, unlike certain other politicians in Ulster. And, like him or not, he is an elected politician with a large - and growing - electorate.
 
#3
I don't believe Paisley is whiter than white either when it comes to the dark arts of NI politics.
And like all politicians he needs to learn the arts of pragmatism, he has strong mandate something he could use to his advantage inside the tent rather than pi$$ing in.
 
#4
OldSnowy said:
To be fair, as far as I know Paisley has never actually killed anyone himself, unlike certain other politicians in Ulster. And, like him or not, he is an elected politician with a large - and growing - electorate.

I must admit on occasion to a sneaking regard for the old b*stard but I am old enough to remember his odious sectarian rabble -rousing in 1966, several years before the start of the most recent Troubles. Max Hastings was in N.Ireland at the start and firmly believes that Paisley was largely responsible for all that followed. He was violently against the normalization of relations between the two parts of the island and pandered to and encouraged the most bone-headed sectarian bigots in Loyalism. This in turn led to the murder of an innocent catholic barman in Belfast.

His behaviour towards the Civil Rights movement and their perfectly reasonable demands was disgracefull and he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself for that alone. He and his pals were largely responsible for the birth of the Provisional IRA and the blood of thousands is on his hands because of that. .One can only wonder what might have happened had Paisley never existed and Terence O'Neill left to continue his policy of reconciliation with the Republic?
 
#5
OldSnowy said:
To be fair, as far as I know Paisley has never actually killed anyone himself, unlike certain other politicians in Ulster. And, like him or not, he is an elected politician with a large - and growing - electorate.
Undoubtedly, but what role is Paisley adopting at this important stage? It's easy to be a populist, garnering plaudits in NI, when your dialogue remains a haranguing style. Despite Adams' heinous past, he has not least shown himself a modern day politician prepared to adapt to new modes.

Regarding the electorate, is it a sign of their insecurity still, that they retain such a strident and ageing figure, figuratively and literally speaking?
 
#6
Where many people, including locals, fall down in trying to analyse NI politics and politicans is in attempting to understand why the electorate support them "in spite of" their extremeism, bluster, crimes or total refusal to acknowledge other points of view. When in fact it should be considered that they grant them their mandate because of these characteristics.
 
#7
Biscuits_Brown said:
Where many people, including locals, fall down in trying to analyse NI politics and politicans is in attempting to understand why the electorate support them "in spite of" their extremeism, bluster, crimes or total refusal to acknowledge other points of view. When in fact it should be considered that they grant them their mandate because of these characteristics.
Yes, quite, but, where are the voices emerging who ask at least resonating questions about the cultural state that leaves NI such an anachronism in the eyes of the mainland. Now we can't say that motivated moderates don't exist, and there are of course many traditional loyalist protestants who'd be quite happy to join the less decrepit, economically speaking, Republic, if the process was right. But the platforms are required to enable their perspective to be debated.
 
#8
Sucks air through teeth..... You hear about as many such resonating questions as are actually asked. I.E. Not very many.
 
#9
Biscuits_Brown said:
Sucks air through teeth..... You hear about as many such resonating questions as are actually asked. I.E. Not very many.
Yes, my friends in the Province display the same residual fatigue when discussing the issue of platforms for debate... what platforms as it were. Peter Hain's analogy of Groundhog Day was apt.

Why the good Lord hasn't called IP 'home' must be due to the fact He's enjoying the peace and quiet too much.
 
#10
BoomShackerLacker said:
and there are of course many traditional loyalist protestants who'd be quite happy to join the less decrepit, economically speaking, Republic, if the process was right.
That strikes me as utter rubbish. I'm a Unionist, in that I believe in the Union - a Loyalist is far more hardline than me and I do not think any Loyalist would ever consider joining the Republic. I know I wouldn't as a Unionist.
 
#11
manchestercop said:
BoomShackerLacker said:
and there are of course many traditional loyalist protestants who'd be quite happy to join the less decrepit, economically speaking, Republic, if the process was right.
That strikes me as utter rubbish. I'm a Unionist, in that I believe in the Union - a Loyalist is far more hardline than me and I do not think any Loyalist would ever consider joining the Republic. I know I wouldn't as a Unionist.
I only base this on personal conversations with friends who are taking a different view of closer links with Ireland. What was abhorent, repugnant and unconscionable is less so now.
 
#12
OldSnowy said:
To be fair, as far as I know Paisley has never actually killed anyone himself, unlike certain other politicians in Ulster. And, like him or not, he is an elected politician with a large - and growing - electorate.
True indeed, OldSnowy. Nobody knows the true facts. But then again, how many people did Hitler or Stalin personally top?

MsG
 
#13
I think we are being unconciously assimilated into the Republic. Just check the ads on UTV; if there's an ad which could have a British or Eire version, you'll get the Eire version everytime, complete with .ie web address.

The problem with Northern Ireland is the fcuking people in it; the political parties are only there to represent them...

(I haven't been able to vote in years incidentally, due to lack of policies geared towards apolitical voters who just want a better future.)
 
#14
What was abhorent, repugnant and unconscionable is less so now.
Umm, no... It's not really.
For anyone that ever actually felt that way, nothing has changed.
 
#15
manchestercop said:
BoomShackerLacker said:
and there are of course many traditional loyalist protestants who'd be quite happy to join the less decrepit, economically speaking, Republic, if the process was right.
That strikes me as utter rubbish. I'm a Unionist, in that I believe in the Union - a Loyalist is far more hardline than me and I do not think any Loyalist would ever consider joining the Republic. I know I wouldn't as a Unionist.
Hey, mancy! Think about it! One of the main reasons for the Balfour Treaty was the fear of the UK gobment that an independent Irish state would start to appropriate property belonging to "English interests" in Norn Iron.

In the meantime, things have moved on and the economic interests of both Norn Iron and the ROI happen to coincide. Everybody wants to make money!

I've been in touch with various companies I work for and they confirm that one of the main things stopping them investing in Norn Iron is the prospect that things could kick off again.

Times change, mancy! Get with it! And so should that cünt Paisley!

MsG

Edited for mong spelling, as usual!
 
#16
One thing that you can be relatively sure of is that when/if it happens it is going to kick off again here, albeit on a more limited scale than was common in the last 30 years.

I've made the argument before though that I can't see any Republic Government being overly eager to actually take control of the North. Like really, in economic terms it brings feck all to the table. In fact apart from some sense of national pride, it brings nothing at all to the table except problems.
 
#17
eSeL said:
I think we are being unconciously assimilated into the Republic. Just check the ads on UTV; if there's an ad which could have a British or Eire version, you'll get the Eire version everytime, complete with .ie web address.

The problem with Northern Ireland is the fcuking people in it; the political parties are only there to represent them...

(I haven't been able to vote in years incidentally, due to lack of policies geared towards apolitical voters who just want a better future.)
Pathetic! This a simple case of marketing. More people in he south watch UTV than in the north.
 
#18
Biscuits_Brown said:
What was abhorent, repugnant and unconscionable is less so now.
Umm, no... It's not really.
For anyone that ever actually felt that way, nothing has changed.
Since ROI is less of a basket case, Dublin's looking shiny, and like all of Europe there's a gradual secularisation by stealth watering down the extremists' use of religious-justification it will be progressively difficult for new generations to be inculcated with the same levels of bigotry.

Education, communication, self-awareness are all culturally chipping away at the ability for a climate for violence. As figureheads as Jurassic as Paisley pass on there will be those less servile in his cohort who can express their true opinions rather than acting. This is the same in any organisation where the boss is an autocrat, he/she's surrounded by clones, but once the figurehead's gone there's creeping change. It will come but desperately slowly.

A lot depends on the financial success of the ROI and 'brand' of Irishness is presents as progressive and aspirational and creates an identity which is attractive.
 
#19
Jaeger
He was violently against the normalization of relations between the two parts of the island and pandered to and encouraged the most bone-headed sectarian bigots in Loyalism. This in turn led to the murder of an innocent catholic barman in Belfast
I think the trouble caused was a bit bigger than just one barman?
 
#20
The Republic's financial state has absolutely no bearing on the situation whatsoever, the failure to understand that and the perception that there is any form of "Irishness" which would be "attractive" to a NI Unionist shows.... Something of a lack of understanding of the situation in my opinion. Sorry.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S11Blade The Intelligence Cell 107
uncle_vanya The NAAFI Bar 24
ugly The NAAFI Bar 46

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top