fantassin
LE

Sorry, but that's daft!
Not from the USA's perspective
Sorry, but that's daft!
Not from the USA's perspective
Indeed if it ever kicked off, plenty of spares, plenty of ground techs, again remind me mate how many Europeans operate RafelleAnd yet F-35, for example, has been sold to Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, the UK, Italy and Poland. The US has authorised as a FMS to Finland and Switzerland too, although it seems more likely that they will buy the F-18E/F.
A degree of commonality is good in a military alliance...
Indeed if it ever kicked off, plenty of spares, plenty of ground techs, again remind me mate how many Europeans operate Rafelle
Only due to it being “gifted”. They wanted the F35I know that France was hoping that Belgium would buy the Rafale, but they went with the F-35 instead. Greece will operate the Rafale.
The US doesn't have a monopoly on arms production and sales in NATO.
Name one NATO nation capable of autonomous combat aircraft production outside the USA. And I mean autonomous, not a multinational conglomerate or a partially US solution.
None of them apart from France. The UK, for example, was quite happy to collaborate with France on the Jaguar, Gazelle, Lynx and Puma. Also, the UK was quite happy to collaborate with Germany and Italy on the Tornado and Typhoon. All are European weapon systems.
None of them apart from France. The UK, for example, was quite happy to collaborate with France on the Jaguar, Gazelle, Lynx and Puma. Also, the UK was quite happy to collaborate with Germany and Italy on the Tornado and Typhoon. All are European weapon systems.
I dissagree
Arguably Germany and Italy could -
I dissagree
The UK could - it has the required expertise in the requisite areas
Sweden could - with the proviso we allow licenced production of Engines
Neither does because its financially more viable to work with others
Arguably Germany and Italy could -
Exactly. And that's why France does not want to lose this autonomous capacity and the R&D and industrial base that go with it and which also allow a nation of only 65 millions to develop and build its own CVN, SSBNs, MBTs, MPAs etc. in favor of an hypothetical commonality which is often nothing else than a norm imposed from the USA IOT force "partners" to become clients.
The Atlantique 2 uses Rolls Royce Tyne turboprops; like in many other French programs, other European nations are included, and the money is spent in Europe rather than in the USA which is good.
And yet choose not to...
Yes they could but they don't, not just because it is financially more viable but also because the industrial base is mostly gone, as well as many of the skilled workers.
I'm genuinely not sure whether you are in favour of French autonomy or European autonomy or both. France has chosen to go down the route of national autonomy but the UK has chosen to go down the route of European collaboration. Both countries also buy US military equipment.
So why are one of the few trusted (hahahahah) countries not to purchase the F35, makes sense as you still have aircraft nuclear capability.France is in favor of French or European solution when a purely French one does not exist.
The past has shown that the USA could be a very difficult partner unless you toe the US line (think Suez 1956 or Iraq 2003). This has led French leaders since Charles de Gaulle to always favor national solutions even if a US solution could be seen as cheaper (at least initially) or immediately available.
The price of autonomy is never seen as too high and a national or EU solution will always be preferred to a US one except in the following situations:
niche systems (3 E-2, 4 E-3, 4 KC/C-130J) where developing a national system would make no financial sense
very old and being phased out (C-135s)
bought second-hand and no national solution at the time of purchase (14 C-130H)
no French or EU competitors (MQ-9s)
unique (steam catapults for CVN)
international standards (0,50 MG for example).
Unlike the 1970s and 1980s when almost all the equipment bare a few notable exceptions (F-8s, C-135s...) were French made, the French forces now operate dozens of EU made systems, France now focusing on high end, high value added weapon systems rather than other, less vital areas.
Which is due to some European countries such as France choosing to maintain an independent arms technology and production base.The US doesn't have a monopoly on arms production and sales in NATO.
It’s not independent, it’s funded via a consortium, Airbus anyone?Which is due to some European countries such as France choosing to maintain an independent arms technology and production base.
Independent of the US.It’s not independent, it’s funded via a consortium, Airbus anyone?
Which is due to some European countries such as France choosing to maintain an independent arms technology and production base.