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P8 MMA/MPA thread.

Not exactly true. The original proposal was as an ASW weapon, but that wasn't taken up.

Specifically, it was proposed as a concept in 1964-5 to kill Juliet and Echo class SSGNs who had to remain surfaced to guide SS-N-3 Shaddock, either against carrier groups (for the antiship version) or into land targets, instant sunshine delivery thereof. Hence the name - it was proposed as a means to attack "whales", meaning large surfaced submarines, at standoff range and interrupting their attack.

However, that was seen as too much of a niche role to justify development funding, and the project was loitering in limbo for a couple of years; then the INS Eilat was taken out by two Komar-class FPBs off Alexandria, and CNO made air-to-surface and surface-to-surface weapons a priority to counter the threat of ASCM-armed small combatants (particularly given the shrinking carrier force as the Essex-class began to retire)

Even then, it was a year before work started properly, the Request For Proposals wasn't issued until 1970, and despite having some private-venture work in hand McDonnell Douglas weren't selected as prime until 1971, with the scope expanded from being an air-launched anti-submarine weapon to include surface and submarine launch and anti-ship use being the priority (since by then the Charlie-class SSGNs were firing missiles while submerged, making the original Harpoon proposal redundant)

The snap approach had been the Interim Surface to Surface Missile, a modification of the AGM-78 Standard anti-radiation missile for surface launch (fitted to some Knox-class frigates and PGMs). Initial emphasis for a more capable solution had been on "Fireflash", a quick'n'dirty conversion of the BQM-34A Firebee target drone to act as an antiship missile; orders were placed in 1968 and a test fit on the destroyer Anderson proved the concept, but by 1971 Harpoon was seen as more versatile (being available by then in air, surface and submarine-launched versions) and Fireflash was terminated with Harpoon pursued instead.


I did say originally, hence the choice of name 'Hapoon' an allusion to spearing breaching whales.

All rather moot now, firing an SM2 or 6 (M3.5 and a lot of explosive and KE) at things is the current preferred option.
 
D

Deleted 3147

Guest
[Sigh2]

The Navy continues testing an airborne sensor for the P-8 Poseidon patrol aircraft.
The APS-154 Advanced Airborne Sensor (AAS) is an external radar, replacing the current Littoral Surveillance Radar System (LSRS). In addition to ISR functions, the AAS is capable of mast and periscope detection.
"Successful testing of AAS on the P-8A is a significant milestone enabling production decisions and leading up to the initial deployment of AAS," said a Naval Air Systems Command news release.
BTW where are we with the upgunned/stretched B2 OPV you said were on their way with SSGW and everything bar laser sharks?
 
We have just got ourselves a new Anti Submarine Anti Surface Aircraft, the worst thing we (the UK) could do is water our capability down by adding stupid foreign sensors.

As a side point, during the Iraq and Afghanistan (more Iraq I think) we added Star Safire 3 and a ground link to the Aussie P3 Oron, it became a land asset rather than a Maritime one (or at least several did).

If we, the UK want this sensor, it needs to be on the AWACS replacement, the P8 HAS to be retained for what the UK needs to be the best at, ASW.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
We have just got ourselves a new Anti Submarine Anti Surface Aircraft, the worst thing we (the UK) could do is water our capability down by adding stupid foreign sensors.

As a side point, during the Iraq and Afghanistan (more Iraq I think) we added Star Safire 3 and a ground link to the Aussie P3 Oron, it became a land asset rather than a Maritime one (or at least several did).

If we, the UK want this sensor, it needs to be on the AWACS replacement, the P8 HAS to be retained for what the UK needs to be the best at, ASW.
Um, foreign sensors?

The P-8 is a US design.

Land assets? What do you think the Nimrods were doing over Afghanistan, then?

The AAS adds capabilities which complement and even rival those of AWACS.

The only point you make which stands up is that we need to preserve the P-8s for ASW, but purely because we'll be getting few enough as it is. We could easily have used another half dozen and more.
 
... and CNO made air-to-surface and surface-to-surface weapons a priority to counter the threat of ASCM-armed small combatants ...

Which led to a complication when the UK was evaluating Harpoon in the mid-1970s versus Sub-Martel. When fired from an SSN, Harpoon lofted to about 600m altitude before slewing, pitching over and descending for the cruise; that was fine against broached SSGNs and small craft, but the UK requirement was to covertly attack Soviet battle groups and that would have been a giveaway signature.

Sub-Martel steered underwater and emerged at a very shallow angle, never exceeding 6m and going straight into the cruise.

The workaround for this disparity was to ignore the problem and buy the US weapon anyway.

But at least the work on Sub-Martel paved the way for Sea Eagle, until we threw that in the bin.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer

aardvark64

War Hero
It can carry the Slammer,


I would like to see if certified to carry Storm Shadow.
Not going to happen - no way the DoD is going to let non-US weapons get integrated at anything like reasonable cost.

It will be made far too expensive for the UK MOD to contemplate; it will be made much easier to buy those awfully-cheap, economies of scale, widely supported, wholesome, righteous as apple pie, NATO-standard weapons.


-----

ETA: now I have a migraine coming on - just thinking about it... Oh joy!
 
Not going to happen - no way the DoD is going to let non-US weapons get integrated at anything like reasonable cost.

It will be made far too expensive for the UK MOD to contemplate; it will be made much easier to buy those awfully-cheap, economies of scale, widely supported, wholesome, righteous as apple pie, NATO-standard weapons.


-----

ETA: now I have a migraine coming on - just thinking about it... Oh joy!
The ground attack version of the harpoon is called slammer,
 

aardvark64

War Hero
The ground attack version of the harpoon is called slammer,
Remind me again who makes these weapons and where?

That was very poor attempt at trolling, you can do better than that....

D-minus
 
Let me give you a clue - Boeing, North America...

You're just making yourself look stupid now. On to 'ignore' you go...
E-minus
Boeing, North America? The ones who build the P8?

The principle user of the P8 is the USN, which we have had aircrew training With since Nimrod got scrapped.


So with that being in mind, recent purchases have been made off the shelf, as is the P8 purchase.

As is the AH64E, E7, F35B.

So what is your point?
 
Not going to happen - no way the DoD is going to let non-US weapons get integrated at anything like reasonable cost.

It will be made far too expensive for the UK MOD to contemplate; it will be made much easier to buy those awfully-cheap, economies of scale, widely supported, wholesome, righteous as apple pie, NATO-standard weapons.


-----

ETA: now I have a migraine coming on - just thinking about it... Oh joy!

JASSM-ER / LRASM do everything Storm Shadow can do, and take out ships.
 
@aardvark64 have you gone to sleep? Too much excitement?

Or a migraine?
 

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