P-Company or not P-Company?

Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by crazyk-r, Dec 22, 2004.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Passing Probation or All Arms Commando doesn’t necessarily mean you can pass P-Company, just like passing P-Coy doesn’t mean you can pass any of the other two. So why is it that when blokes get posted into 216 from any of the other two. They don’t have to complete and pass the course that we do.
    Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying 216 lads shouldn’t have to do the course that 264 require or that All Arms Commando require I’m saying that I’ve known of an instance In my time in the Bde when a Soldier attempted P-Company 5 times and failed each time. Then went to 264 and passed first time. I am not saying this is because p-company is harder, my point is that when that soldier gets back to 216 he will be entitled to wear the maroon beret (and shape it they way most of you seem to disagree with) and more importantly receive Parachute Pay. In a role that on 5 occasions he was unable to meet the minimum required standard. I’m sure most 264 lads, would prefer to have to do the course, but if no one is going to make them do it. Why should they, I’m not too sure I’d want to rag my self stupid for 5/6 weeks for nothing at the end of it.

    Why then not suspend a soldiers para pay. Not to de wing him, because the wings have already been earned. Until that soldier either passed the course relevant to the unit he is at, or until he was posted back to the unit where he originally qualified from.

    May I also add as not to seem biased, I also know of many soldiers from 216 failing 264 and rightly not been posted in or if they had, they didn’t receive SFC pay until the course was completed successfully.
  2. Surely the parachute pay is because the individual is jumps qualified, not because he has passed P company. In this case the para pay is justified because they are qualified, and presumeably employed in role.

    Just my take on it.

  3. crazyk-r
    I understand where you are coming from but it is not quite that easy.

    1. Probation is for service with SF as an SF Signaler or SFC. The course is based on Selection with Comms course attached. Part of the Hill Phase/Physical phase are tests that have been agreed by P Coy (same as SF) to supplement P Coy tests. Hence both Probation and Selection going onto Jumps courses.

    2. All Arms Commando is for service with Command Bde. Not sure how this then acquaints to being agreed by P Coy to supplement to P Coy tests. I think it has been or that as RM are RN (if you know what I mean) then they can decided what tests to put in place prior to Jumps. If this is the case, then anyone doing the All Arms Commando will get in through this system.

    3. P Coy is the Army standard needed to pass to gain entry onto Jumps.

    There is no way of getting around this. If someone from 264 did fail before attempting Probation, whilst he may have embarrased himself somewhat, remember that the two courses are very dissimilar. Charging around the hills with a squad, whilst physically tough is different than charging around the hills on your lonesome. Both are physical but of a different sort.

    Horses for courses.

    As for 216 having to do Probation, P Coy only gains you your Jumps. Jumps is only 1 qual you have to achieve to gain SFC, same as PARA must attempt Selection etc etc and RMs.

    If the lad in question was ever posted back to Colchester then it may cause a problem. If he does not - so what.
  4. All Arms Pre Para Selection is only one of the courses which qualifies you to attend the Military Parachutist course and subsequently get the wings'n'extra dosh. The other qualifying courses to do jumps are: UKSF Selection, SD selection (plus a tour I think), 264 Probation, AA Pathfinder selection and I think Sphinx Special OP Bty as well. So, in conclusion your honour, para pay is not exclusive to 16 AA Bde - our winged warriors (incl Monsieur crazyk-r) should put it all in perspective.
  5. Thanks for the reply's.

    Well worth the read.

    Although think my main point was missed a bit, (maybe it was the way I worded it). Which was three very different course all equally hard. Three different units why then not having to complete each course for each of the unit before comencing a role/post within that unit.
    I agree that passing either one should allow the candiate to commence Para trg and subsequently wear the BBC (with pride). But would like to see more para trained lads who haven't completed P-Company complete it before comencing on a tour with 16 AA.
    If an Ex 3oish yr old ex Rsm can do it why not everyone

    And whether your 216/264 or 3 cmd. We're all brothers just pushed out of different mother's.

  6. Is that Fred B who did it about 10 yrs ago you're talking about?
  7. Mr B was a Maj not an RSM, he was my Sqn OC at the time and he was more like 44 than 30.

    Great fella
  8. The original quote was 'ex-RSM'. Didn't FB go as QM or summat.
  9. Yes PD I believe he did.

    Glorious days back then in 9SR.
  10. I was a young lad that went from 264 to 216 and was pressured into doing Pre-PARA/P-COY if I wanted to fit in. As an RTG and posted to a operating troop, it was virtually a prerequisite. It did feel a bit strange though on P-COY though tipping up with my wings on and getting fed up with the questions. While on P-COY I also got victimised (slightly) because the DS from the brigade knew where I had come from and for 1 reason or another had some contact with 264 on exercise, jumps course etc and were left a little jelous, envious or even discusted with the attitude of the guys.

    Slightly after my arrival another guy turned up from 264 who didn't have to do P-COY. This was because the guy worked in Tech TP and his FoS didn't see the need for the new lad to do P-Coy because he hadn't. The Tech was a good lad and fitted in anyhow but it came down to personalities at the time. My troop seniors where all old school and hated 264!

    But one thing I would say though that no matter what the course - Probation/P-COY etc etc, I found that these were some of the best times of my career. Afterall - a sports day - everyday.
  11. That is correct, however i do know of an ex-4/73 WO2 who took a TSM/BSM ?? post and insisted on completing P Coy
  12. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    The BBC is an RAF award and some Rockapes, (2 Sqn ?) take the wings course too.
    However they have their own beat-up before going to 1 PTS, one would imagine, (or hope,) that it is similar to P-Coy.
    Can anyone shed some light on their course ?

  13. I met a RAF Regt full screw on a course that said he was joining thier airborne mob because his RAF was closing down, he had a house in the area and this was the only unit nearby. Didn't seem too fazed by the course as he reckoned that it wasn't that physically hard, his words not mine I would also love to know the truth