Overissue Recovery

Having waited patiently for a whole year to be correctly paid and refunded the few hundred quid the firm owed me, I ended up 2 grand over paid. However Glasgow assured me just before Christmas that all was in order and the money was what they owed me. Obviously refusing to take them at their word the money has been wrapped up in the bank and not touched. When the paperwork came thru inviting me to refund them, I thought "Here is a bit of fun" and told them that I did not want to play. Since this paperwork should end up on the COs desk I put in a note stating that I realised that I would end up paying the bulk of it but did he not agree that the situation is awful.

Now my initial error was that I assumed that people would actually action paperwork they receive and pass on my snotty note to the CO. Wrong, no one did eff all with my paper work and now that 6 weeks have expired since Glasgow sent it out they have started refunding themselves from my pay account.

Question is simple, since they have no signature from me saying fill your boots or otherwise, no one has spoken to me saying wind you neck in gob shite or actually do eff all, where do I stand?
The bollocks way this has been administered just makes me wanna dig my heels in even more and make life harder for the system.
The money is no longer the issue as I have that ,but if this happens to me (with reasonable admin – well a good wife who conducts excellent house admin) what happens to a young tom with his/her admin right up his/her arse! (as mine was before her majesty got a grip of me).
Any one with proven advice and not the clever arse remarks that I normally trade in, chuck them my way and I promise to update the world with my stroppiness!
OK, first of all you need to front up and state that you are now suffering financial hardship because of the manner in which the money is being recovered. Do not try the "in good faith" argument, it's not one that works legally or otherwise these days. State simply that your wife runs the accounts, she has spent the money believing it to be a signing on/time done bonus, and now you are in dire financial straits. You will end up paying it all back, but there is a method in the system of paying you back the money and recovering by installments. You can negotiate the installments up to 12 months.

Good luck.
Cheers for the pointers - all good stuff, but I really want to turn over the system on this one. In these days where comms are freely available (or more so than 10 years ago) for an RAOs dept to simply fail to action information passed thru them is unacceptable. For the entire pay system to make an arse up of this level it is no wonder retention is a bugger!
I may have to go the finacial hardship route but would prefer the eff you come and get me route (if one exists in these days). Once again cheers for the info and will keep all infod as to how this buggers muddle goes.
This happened to me a few years ago - they overpaid me and then assured me that i owed no money an more than one occasion and then started taking money out of my account at £400 a month. I kicked off - made them recover it at £100 a month and put the money (Like you i put it to one side, as a result of not trusting the lying pay b**stards) into a down payment for my house - the result, I made an audit trail on tyheir incompetance and effectively had a £4000 tax free loan!!
Have done some digging on the Internet and the UK has very tight legislation on the removal of money from peoples pay packet. The bottom line is you need to sign to agree or the overpayment must be a genuine mistake, AND NOT THE GROSS INCOMPETANCE that the Army endures. Stand by for further developments when this hits the Regt next week!
I actually still owe the Army about 600 houndred pounds after being severly over payed on a tour. I was told it would be taken in two lumps by Glasgow. They only ever took one!

I spoke to a civi pay clerk (this was at a phase three training establishment) and her reply was, well I'm not gonna look for it!

So, somehow, I got away with an over payment. Although maybe pay2000 being implemented had something to do with it. As that was apparently the reason for the fck-up in the first place.

Amazing_lobster - it is that level of incompetance displayed by those that run the pay system that I am hedging my bets on. However my paperwork stating stick your invitation to re-pay, where the sun does not shine did not even reach my CO. I have not signed or been warned that the money will be removed. Therefore the money is actually in contravention of a number of elements of UK Employment and Pay laws. Like I said will drop a line when my letter goes in.
new to the site so dont know how to do links and stuff,

on the REME forum under tiffy back pay a bloke is quoting legal stuff about pay overissues, it is definately worth a look, hope it helps you.

if i did my job as poorly as some others do theirs :roll:
I've recently had both sides of the stick. To cut a long story short, I was given a double whammy LSSA bonus for 421 days away in 2 years - once spent they tried to reapply the rules and say that I didn't qualify as the start date was wrong. Result: I resorted to legal advice and the money was written off at immediately.

6 months later, my unit continued to pay LSSA for an extra 3 months on high rate, along with not deducting food and accom. I was on leave then in Africa on ex for 6 weeks so had no idea, got back to no pay statements and immediately blew the money in my account on toys. Almost a year later they realise their mistake and deduct £400 a month with no notice - the last repayment was last month.

I figure that I'm quits, but only because I'm not thinking too hard about the fact that I did easily qualify for the original LSSA bonus.

If one of the lads sleeps on stag, he's crucified. If a Pay Clerk fails to complete R2 correctly to Glasgow, half the Bn suffers considerable financial penalty and absolutely bugger all is done.

Don't get me on to the subject of 'automatic tax rebates' after you have paid back the full amount despite the fact that you received the wages sans tax. The system clearly doesn't work, especially if the problem spans 2 tax years. Admin office response?... Laa Laaa Laaa....

Common sense and DPM
Common thanks for the tip and will have a good look at the REME Forum and hopefully swop tips with the Tiffy who is by the sounds of it on the same mission as myself.
DPM - It is this exact reason that you quote that my heels are dug in hard and I will fight for this - it is clearly crap, the initial reason I made the remarks when asked for the money back was so the CO thought that prehaps not all is well at the coal face and if a SNCO cannot bitch at his CO there is little hope for toms. Little did I know that paper work is filtered by the RAO Dept and only the nice paperwork hits the CO. Not only dis-honest but so weak and cowardly it make me sick. Your comment...."If one of the lads sleeps on stag, he's crucified. If a Pay Clerk fails to complete R2 correctly to Glasgow, half the Bn suffers considerable financial penalty and absolutely bugger all is done" is so true and we collectively have accepted this shit for so long now it is wrong.
Even if JPA works for 2% of it's projected availability we could only make 2% of the cock ups that we currently suffer!
Having been a civvy for almost as many years as I was in uniform I think a visit to the local CAB might help , many people who find themselves in debt do this , spin the tale out about hardship. I have known many people get the CAB to work an agreement where the pay back is a very small amount per week or month and the length of payment running into years . In effect it works out as a free loan as the first thing they do is get the overpayment or debt frozen , that is no interest can be added to it.


Huey, although it is policy that all overpayments will be recovered there are also rules that clearly state that if you have recieved money, queried or checked the amount received was correct (must be able to prove this, a RAO pay enquiry is suffice) and then spent it/changed your life style as a result of receiving it you do not have to pay it back. This is known as Estoppel and it is HMG policy. I have successfully fought off several repayment demands for various guys on these grounds.

Old Timer - Got shed loads of info fm CAB web site - fantastic link which gives the ONLY reasons when an employer may deduct from your wages, and as yet none of the reasons have been met.
In My Day- Cheers for the tip - Looking it up now.
Ok here is what I know:

Glasgow issue a Unit Schedule of overissues evey month to the RAO covering each of those individuals who have an Overissue on their pay account.

Soldier gets an NTOVERISSUE entry on his pay statement (Time for soldier to approach pay office for explanation).

RAO issues an AF O9612 to the soldier through the chain of command, this identifies the Overissue and explains why it has occured. It notifies the solider of the amount to be repaid (which the soldier already knows as it's on his pay statement) and how much the payments will be for / over how many months (Any amount over 4 days gross pay will be recovered in installments).

Soldier is then asked to complete an AF O9613 in which the soldier either agrees or disagrees with the overissue.

If you agree to the amount but think the recovery is too high per month, you can ask for it to be recovered at a lower rate but to do this you will have to provide proof of hardship, listing all your outgoings.

More information is available by looking at PAM Part 2, Ch 5, Section 13 or DSPSI 326/20 dtd 11 Mar 04.

If you fail to sign the form and return it, the money will be recovered automatically after approx 6 weeks.

The authority for the recovery of Public and Service Debts is the Pay Warrant 1993 Articles 4b and c

Hope this helps to explain the situation
AbleAndy - Thanks for the info - pretty much what happened less nobody ever came back to me when I said I disagreed with the over issue due to the time lag and to just object. That is now my bitch with the whole thing. And the fact that when I could not get a sensible answer from anyone or supplemental pay statement Glasgow said the money was mine they owed me it! On that statement I assume it to be mine and wanna keep it. Plus 9 months to get my pay correct (under paid) I call it the intrest I could have earned on that money!
The situation goes fm shitty to very shitty. Having had a good look in my pay file I have found all the paperwork regarding this over payment.
Whilst I completed my objection to re-payment and sent it in, the paper work sent fm the RAO Dept to Glasgow states that no objection has been made and has filled in the figure to which I have allegedly agreed to pay monthly. Having had no such discussion with any one other than sub-unit clerk who gave me the paper work to object, how was this figure derived, why has some one lied to Glasgow saying I have not objected, and what the f^ck do they think they are doing! Must assume I am thick as pig shite and would not notice ₤400 a month.
Take them to the cleaners! having been on the end of many clerk cock-ups the pay admin in the Army really grips my shite, really hope you get this sorted mate and the culprit has his/her balls cut off!
This is a common problem. My whole Sqn got massively overpaid LSSA 3 times last year and the bastards just take it back without asking. They then just just f*ck you off when you complain. I really do wish you the best.
HueyRat, it sounds as though your RAO are blatantly guilty of "falling asleep on sentry" in not passing your objection up the chain of command. Hang the bastards.
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