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Over-training or just a bit old and weak?

Dwarf

LE
Older we get young 'un, the more we need to pay attention to details. At 37 I could train at a fairly high level but every now and again I would take a few days off especially when tired at the start of holidays and found I could train better afterwards.
One of the fittest blokes I met deliberately took one week off every two months to recover, and it worked very well for him.

Have you had a good check-up recently? When I hit fifty I found training harder and put it down to age. Then when preparing for along hike in the Pyrenees I got a check-up and found out I had been carrying a light anaemia for a while. When I took steps to remedy this it made a phenomenal difference in my general health and ability to train.
In my case I was low on B12, being vegan I have to watch it. It's always worth having yourself checked out.
 
Fellow gym queens and work avoiders...

in the last couple of weeks, phys has gone from a thing of enjoyment to something I am grinding out, and at times, actively avoiding.

Background - I suffered a significant MSKI about 18 months ago, but have been through two sets of rehab (I got a bit over excited after the first bout), and am now MFD and in-date fitness test (1.5mile run in 9:57 at last test). Progression has been gradual, and under eyes of Physio and PTI - we're not in a scenario of massive increase over two or three weeks after relative inactivity.

My currently weekly workout is as follows:

M - Yasso 800s: 8 x 800m intervals (in 3:15 - 3:25) with a 2:30 rest. With 4 mins pre-hab before, 15 mins warm up, 15 mins warm down (light job).
T - Rehab - plyo work, bounds, single leg presses (5 x 5 @90% BW), plus 1 hour pilates, plus 30 mins of upper body work (Bench Press, multiple types of chins, curls for the girls).
W - 10km run in/around 52 mins cross country
T - Rehab - plyo work, bounds, deadlift (5 x 4 @150% BW), plus 30 mins of upper body work (over head press, BW rows with TRX), and 15 mins core (pilates based, clams, abdo-prep etc)
F - rest
S - long run - 8-10 miles trail/fell running
S - rest.

it's a relatively high volume, but as I said, I've built up to this over the last 12 months. As a guide, this time last year, I couldn't single leg press 30kg, nor could I run 800m. So far, so boring.

However, the last couple of weeks has turned from fun and enjoyable to me having to grind it out. Runs aren't about finding 'flow' and enjoying it, it's about cursing my quads and proper mental mantras to stop me just wrapping. However, times/pace/resting heart rate/1RM are showing either small increments or stabilised - I'm not going 'backwards' in any objective measurement.

So - is this a normal phase, or something else? Do I need to grind through it and sunny uplands will (re)arrive where I enjoy doing all this? I'm going to mention it to the physio later this week, but would welcome any other opinions/feedback. Underpinning this is that I'm now in my mid-30s, and aware that life doesn't get any easier.

ps - before anyone asks, my phys goals are to be able to do what ever I want, whenever I want, and in particular be around for my kids (and putative grandkids) in 50+ years time (family history of heart disease etc). I also have my eye on a coastal trail series ultra - either the exmoor or jurassic coast one, or the classic quarter, all in 2019.

If it's just the last couple of weeks, lack of decent sleep is the obvious one.
 

jim30

LE
I work away from home, and have no desire to become the fat old alkie that many of my peers are turning into!

Presumably when I saw you last week then, it was an extremely large cushion stuffed down your shirt and not a belly? ;-)

Seriously though - REST! I have a number of mates in this position, along with myself - we're all mid-late 30s, all keen to do phys and smash it out, but think rest is for wimps. It took a sustained running injury that took 6 months to heal to get me to realise I was over training.

A bootneck mate of mine swears by combination of hard tough phys and Yoga - apparently its great for recovery and he swears blind it has made a big difference.

I also found getting a personal trainer once a week made a big difference in persuading me to vary my routine and liven things up a bit. Its easy to get stuck in an intense rut and forget what you are training for.
 
Presumably when I saw you last week then, it was an extremely large cushion stuffed down your shirt and not a belly? ;-)

Seriously though - REST! I have a number of mates in this position, along with myself - we're all mid-late 30s, all keen to do phys and smash it out, but think rest is for wimps. It took a sustained running injury that took 6 months to heal to get me to realise I was over training.

A bootneck mate of mine swears by combination of hard tough phys and Yoga - apparently its great for recovery and he swears blind it has made a big difference.

I also found getting a personal trainer once a week made a big difference in persuading me to vary my routine and liven things up a bit. Its easy to get stuck in an intense rut and forget what you are training for.

I,wasn't going to mention the Y word, but if you get the right instructor and learn the basics from the bottom up it is ninja beneficial on its own and shed loads of research suggesting the it helps shape improved performances in athletes in a rut.

It definitely bends stretches and strengthens areas that standard squaddie training combos have never touched.

It's good for the mind you can do it anywhere in a small space and when you hit sessions you are basically staring up fit birds clunges lightly covered in camel toe forming Lycra, what's not to like
 

HopeGrant

War Hero
I find martial arts great for maintaining fitness in a way that doesn’t get boring.

I am 54 but do 3 Krav Maga sessions a week including a lot of pressure testing and sparring. It really helps with everything from cardio fitness, agility and coordination, strength and because it totally engages brain as well as body I don’t get bored.
 
Presumably when I saw you last week then, it was an extremely large cushion stuffed down your shirt and not a belly? ;-)

Seriously though - REST! I have a number of mates in this position, along with myself - we're all mid-late 30s, all keen to do phys and smash it out, but think rest is for wimps. It took a sustained running injury that took 6 months to heal to get me to realise I was over training.

A bootneck mate of mine swears by combination of hard tough phys and Yoga - apparently its great for recovery and he swears blind it has made a big difference.

I also found getting a personal trainer once a week made a big difference in persuading me to vary my routine and liven things up a bit. Its easy to get stuck in an intense rut and forget what you are training for.

I,wasn't going to mention the Y word, but if you get the right instructor and learn the basics from the bottom up it is ninja beneficial on its own and shed loads of research suggesting the it helps shape improved performances in athletes in a rut.

It definitely bends stretches and strengthens areas that standard squaddie training combos have never touched.

It's good for the mind you can do it anywhere in a small space and when you hit sessions you are basically staring up fit birds clunges lightly covered in camel toe forming Lycra, what's not to like

Pilates is hitting that spot fo me.


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Dwarf

LE
Yoga. Oh yes. I was having major problems with knees, and took up yoga. Apart from the mental discipline it stretches out the body the way we don't in normal life.

I'm sixty now and still training and running.

Plus when learning mostof the class are female and in tight kit. Win-win.
 
strewth must be doing something wrong pushing 67 have just shifted 5 tons of soil with a compadre aged 75. Used a half ton roller. 10 x 6 ft x30kgs slabs with fenceposts for a new Bowls boundary and I walk the dog 4 miles a day. The Groundsman's been pushing us-he's 85.
 
D

Deleted 145301

Guest
[]
Yoga. Oh yes. I was having major problems with knees, and took up yoga. Apart from the mental discipline it stretches out the body the way we don't in normal life.

I'm sixty now and still training and running.

Plus when learning mostof the class are female and in tight kit. Win-win.
Downward dog is apt to make one go blind
 

bluenosewrx

Old-Salt
37, is that it Lol.
Christ i'm 48 and run over 12km daily, 6-8 km each way (depending on route), sometimes cycle home but mostly running, think i need to calm down, average pace of 1 km in 5 mins to 5:15 mins depending on weight in the old rucksack. couple of light weight sessions.
done 2 ultras now with the 4 day cotswold 100 and the man vs mountain the year after.
never too old
 
Any injuries picked up as a callow yoof will be amplified by age. Around 40 you start heading downhill at an increasing rate.

Suck it up and burn through until it becomes too much of a pain in the arse then gradually begin decreasing the load until you turn into one of those rheumy old codgers you see bimbling about on the seafront with a stick and a fedora.

Oi! leave me out of this. There's nothing wrong with a stick and a trend setting natty bit of head-wear.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Fellow gym queens and work avoiders...

in the last couple of weeks, phys has gone from a thing of enjoyment to something I am grinding out, and at times, actively avoiding.

Background - I suffered a significant MSKI about 18 months ago, but have been through two sets of rehab (I got a bit over excited after the first bout), and am now MFD and in-date fitness test (1.5mile run in 9:57 at last test). Progression has been gradual, and under eyes of Physio and PTI - we're not in a scenario of massive increase over two or three weeks after relative inactivity.

My currently weekly workout is as follows:

M - Yasso 800s: 8 x 800m intervals (in 3:15 - 3:25) with a 2:30 rest. With 4 mins pre-hab before, 15 mins warm up, 15 mins warm down (light job).
T - Rehab - plyo work, bounds, single leg presses (5 x 5 @90% BW), plus 1 hour pilates, plus 30 mins of upper body work (Bench Press, multiple types of chins, curls for the girls).
W - 10km run in/around 52 mins cross country
T - Rehab - plyo work, bounds, deadlift (5 x 4 @150% BW), plus 30 mins of upper body work (over head press, BW rows with TRX), and 15 mins core (pilates based, clams, abdo-prep etc)
F - rest
S - long run - 8-10 miles trail/fell running
S - rest.

it's a relatively high volume, but as I said, I've built up to this over the last 12 months. As a guide, this time last year, I couldn't single leg press 30kg, nor could I run 800m. So far, so boring.

However, the last couple of weeks has turned from fun and enjoyable to me having to grind it out. Runs aren't about finding 'flow' and enjoying it, it's about cursing my quads and proper mental mantras to stop me just wrapping. However, times/pace/resting heart rate/1RM are showing either small increments or stabilised - I'm not going 'backwards' in any objective measurement.

So - is this a normal phase, or something else? Do I need to grind through it and sunny uplands will (re)arrive where I enjoy doing all this? I'm going to mention it to the physio later this week, but would welcome any other opinions/feedback. Underpinning this is that I'm now in my mid-30s, and aware that life doesn't get any easier.

ps - before anyone asks, my phys goals are to be able to do what ever I want, whenever I want, and in particular be around for my kids (and putative grandkids) in 50+ years time (family history of heart disease etc). I also have my eye on a coastal trail series ultra - either the exmoor or jurassic coast one, or the classic quarter, all in 2019.

Are you sure you are not simply bored and/or overtired with the routine? Even after doing it progressively etc a 6-12 month program gets to you. Not quite the same thing as overtraining but has similar effect. Most professional programs of that length have at least 1/4 on a totally different activity or set of: e.g. runners do 3 winter months primarily swimming, rowers doing 3 autumn months primarily cycling, etc.

You don't seem to be citing any particular physical problem, more a mental / general weariness. If that's the case, the usual prescription is a cross-training period or cycle: not just replacing one session a week with something else, but planning a whole new 8-12 week cycle with a radically different primary activity or goal. In your case (long distance hill running goal, yes?), perhaps try substituting cycling for your long running sessions, or switch the whole running program to short, fast distances and sprints, potentially on an ergo if this is all gym based.

Not convinced that something is wrong / age related. As I've always had it explained to me by physics and docs etc, unexplained, near term plateaus in performance are either illness, overtraining, or change required related. Age just makes you more injury prone, and injury can be traced to specific symptoms and causes (e.g. hurty feet, leg not working, and so on).
 

TamH70

MIA
Running hurts me too much at the moment to even think about doing it for any worthwhile distance. Kneecap's out of alignment already due to a series of old injuries, and the physio exercises I got to alleviate the symptoms and try to align the various muscles and other things in that general area came to a crashing halt just before Christmas when I did the same - slipped on some ice, went down like the proverbial sack of tatties, banged the knee on the asphalt and screamed in a girlish fashion. Which was rather annoying as this was on a wee bike-ride thing out to Lochwinnoch, and I didn't even crash into anything solid beforehand. No. I had to damn near break the kneecap when I was about to go into Morrisons for a coffee, got off of the saddle and was wheeling the bike along to the supermarket in question.

My only saving grace is that nobody put footage of me being an idiot on YouTube or Facebook.
 
I've slacked off and now I'm going through the sh*tty stages of not-quite regaining what I could do last year).

.

This big issue
In my case

Injury caused me to slack off - for about 18 months - this was compounded by becoming demotivated. Like you say far behind previous years curve no longer fit in my suit ( and its only 20 yr old ) and wrong side of 40

Now struggling to fight the excuse of hmm dont fancy running in that and cycling struggle to get motivated for more than 5ks - tired struggling turn for home .
And motivations the killer - in Feb I had no choice but to put in 38.2Ks of very hilly cycling - In a snow storm** and I did it because I had to. 3 12 hours No record times ( although I lost the downhills as it was to cold to really pick up speed and I couldn't see ( The star wars light speed effect) goggles were obscured or I was blinded directly by crap in eyes.


So I know I can do it - but without a clear destination or objective - the run or ride is 10 times harder and I struggle to do a fraction of what I can.

What I need is another person to accompany / bully me until I regain the habit***

Alfred is this also possibly a factor for you ?

**Ok it was light snow sleet - but on taking off the silly skid lid I had lumps of ice in my hair where the vent gaps were

***Yes shite self discipline I know
 
I've slacked off and now I'm going through the sh*tty stages of not-quite regaining what I could do last year).

.

This big issue
In my case

Injury caused me to slack off - for about 18 months - this was compounded by becoming demotivated. Like you say far behind previous years curve no longer fit in my suit ( and its only 20 yr old ) and wrong side of 40

Now struggling to fight the excuse of hmm dont fancy running in that and cycling struggle to get motivated for more than 5ks - tired struggling turn for home .
And motivations the killer - in Feb I had no choice but to put in 38.2Ks of very hilly cycling - In a snow storm** and I did it because I had to. 3 12 hours No record times ( although I lost the downhills as it was to cold to really pick up speed and I couldn't see ( The star wars light speed effect) goggles were obscured or I was blinded directly by crap in eyes.


So I know I can do it - but without a clear destination or objective - the run or ride is 10 times harder and I struggle to do a fraction of what I can.

What I need is another person to accompany / bully me until I regain the habit***

Alfred is this also possibly a factor for you ?

**Ok it was light snow sleet - but on taking off the silly skid lid I had lumps of ice in my hair where the vent gaps were

***Yes shite self discipline I know

Amusingly, during the bad weather in the SW, I got out and about in both the horrendous rain and the snow - I’ve got no problem with getting grotty, as I know I’m heading home to a warm shower and a cuppa. For most of my long moor runs I’ve got certainly mental markers which to me mean that I’m about 20 minutes from being warm!

I think Sarastro might have hit it on the head - I’m nearly 12 months into this rehab programme with the same type of exercises week in week out.


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