Our loved ones deserve an Iraq inquiry

#1
From The Guardian:

Our loved ones deserve an Iraq inquiry


Thursday June 23, 2005
The Guardian

Jonathan Freedland (Yes, they did lie to us, June 22) is right to call for a full investigation into the lies we were told to take us to war. Our loved ones gave their lives in the service of this country. They all died in the Iraq war. When they went to that war they believed they were being sent to defend our country. They were told it was their duty to disarm the Saddam regime of its weapons of mass destruction. When enlisting, servicemen and women sign an oath of allegiance to her majesty's government. All they ask in return is that their government acts in an honourable, truthful and responsible manner, and only deploys troops into the theatre of war to risk their lives when absolutely necessary.

We now believe our prime minister, Tony Blair, misled the people of this country as to the true reasons for the war in Iraq. We believe there was no serious evidence for WMD. We also believe that the assurances given by the attorney general, Peter Goldsmith, as to the legality of the war are highly questionable. This is why we are calling for an independent public inquiry into the decision to go to war. We must restore accountability to public life. Our loved ones deserve justice and the people of this country deserve the truth.

Reg and Sally Keys
Parents of L-Cpl Thomas Keys
Rose and George Gentle
Parents of Fusilier Gordon Gentle
John and Marilyn Miller
Parents of Cpl Simon Miller
Tony Hamilton-Jewell
Brother of Sgt Simon Hamilton-Jewell
Peter Brierley
Father of L-Cpl Shaun Brierley
Anna Aston
Wife of Cpl Russell Aston
George and Ann Lawrence
Parents of Lt Marc Lawrence
Tracey Pritchard
Wife of Cpl Dewi Pritchard
Patricia Long
Mother of Cpl Paul Long
Sharon Hehir
Wife of Sgt Les Hehir
Lianne Seymour
Wife of Operator Mechanic 2nd Class Ian Seymour
Debbie Allbutt
Wife of Cpl Stephen Allbutt
Theresa Evans
Mother of Lance Bombardier Llywelyn Karl Evans
Roy and Eileen Shearer
Parents of L-Cpl Karl Shearer
Richard and Karen Green
Parents of Lt Philip Green
Beverley Clarke
Mother of Trooper David Clarke
James and Rae Craw
Parents of Cpl Andrew Craw
The link is here

Whether you agree with their stance or not, there is no denying the strength of feeling these people have - this issue just won't go way it seems - much to the annoyance of No10.
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
I thought that we were here to preserve the principles of justice, truth, equality, etc?

Of course people deserve the truth. We (or at least I) was very clear getting on thge plane to fly to the ME in 2003 that it was not about WMD but economics and the public was essentially lied to.

Fine, it happens, but what now? Is the Government going to turn around, put its hands up and say "Its a fair cop, guv"? No it isn't.

I wish them all the best and hope they get the answers that they seek, but I can't help but feel that they are on a hiding to nothing.
 
#3
To many are baffled by the bull and listen to the spin as fact, I thought that economics was behind an obsession with being a "world leader" type of megolomania.
Or I am stilljust a cycnic?
 
#4
Let's accept that there were no WMDs and that 'we' went to war to oust an evil dictator who killed anyone who opposed him.

Why haven't we gone to North Korea, Burma, Sudan, Zimbabwe?
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#5
I'm truly sorry for the families involved, but am old-fashioned enough to think that, when you join, you agree to do what you are told, go where you're sent, and generally obey the rules. If they didn't like it, they could have left.

Sorry to sound callous, but I've seen grieving families before, as the result of various foreign excursions (and at home in Ulster, of course). With Iraq they appear to have been 'got at' and their grief is being used for cheap political purposes.

If we only fought in 'just' wars, and refused all other times, the Army would be a pretty pathetic organisation, something like the Bundeswhr at the moment.

<Rant off>

<Preparing for Abuse>
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
PoisonDwarf said:
Let's accept that there were no WMDs and that 'we' went to war to oust an evil dictator who killed anyone who opposed him.

Why haven't we gone to North Korea, Burma, Sudan, Zimbabwe?
Back to Economics. Iraq holds 25% of the remaining oil reserve in the ME.
 
#7
The problem is that Neu Arbeit has got itself a reputation now as an untrustworthy rabble. If they played things straight there would be no opening for this sort of thing.

I think the families ARE being got at. There grief is being used to score cheap political points.

But again the current mob of imbeciles in London seem to use this tehnique alot, hence the parents of the toddler shot with an air rifle were used to score points and get them banned.

Instead of argueing and debating things out in a rational manner so people understand, it is now seen as the norm to get a blubbing parent/child/relation up on the stand.
 
#8
If there is nothing to be ashamed of in ousting a dictator and not finding WMDs, then there is nothing to hide from an inquiry and no reason not to have one. Conversely... :twisted:
 
#9
I thought signing on for Armed forces was signing an Unlimited Liability Contract.
The government of the day has the right to order you into deaths door step and to whatever mangling and tangling that comes with it.
But responsibility works both ways in a democracy.
I do not doubt that our government lied to the people to have it's war, but then the people choose to relect it.
If it had lied in parliment then an opening would exsit.
'Our loved ones deserve an Iraq inquiry' they do.
Folk traitor Blur is expert at fixing inquiries, he just sets limmeted terms of referance.
john
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
jonwilly said:
I thought signing on for Armed forces was signing an Unlimited Liability Contract.
The government of the day has the right to order you into deaths door step and to whatever mangling and tangling that comes with it.
But responsibility works both ways in a democracy.
I do not doubt that our government lied to the people to have it's war, but then the people choose to relect it.
If it had lied in parliment then an opening would exsit.
'Our loved ones deserve an Iraq inquiry' they do.
Folk traitor Blur is expert at fixing inquiries, he just sets limmeted terms of referance.
john
You don't mean bring back crown immunity do you? Oh did anyone else just see that pig fly by on the approach to Heathrow?
 
#11
PoisonDwarf said:
Why haven't we gone to North Korea, Burma, Sudan, Zimbabwe?
200,000 Marsh Arabs were forcibly removed from their homes in Iraq - one of the reasons that BLiar used as a justification for tottering into Iraq in the first place.

200,000 people have been forcibly removed from their homes in Zimbabwe so far. Double standards - or just no easily extractable oil?

Back on thread...

I agree with OS' post above - we all know the score when we join, but our parents and loved ones (and I hope we all have one or the other) deserve to be treated a little better. After all, we joined - they didn't.

(With thanks to Private Eye for the figures)
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#12
What do they think an inquiry will produce? Recent experience suggests that, at the cost of millions of pounds of public money, the outcome will be a mealy-mouthed document which exonerates the Government or makes its criticisms in vague, non-threatening Civil Service gobbledegook which the Government will spin it's way out of.

Far better to campaign politically and exorcise their demons at the ballot box, and I think Reg Keyes made a good start at Sedgefield in May.
 
#13
Going to war for economic reasons is entirely justifiable, and the reserves in Iraq aren't trivial. Unfortunately, this government - supposedly a socialist one - couldn't bring themselves to explaining that to the Guardian's readership and resorted to lying about it. That's not the action of a credible British government, and I hope the relatives get their way.
 
#14
I agree with Old Snowy on this, if people have a problem they should leave but the relatives are complaining about political choices and "justice". I doubt their lost loved ones joined with the same attitude about the rights or wrongs of any conflict.

The first two names, Reg Keys and Fusilers Gentles family... sorry but these two have got to get over it (ouch) I dont mean to be callous but the last "just" war by any leftys standards was WW2. Their loved ones joined to serve regardless of the alleged rights or wrongs. Reg Keys wanted his son to leave 1 Para for somewhere safer and he was never keen on his son being in the Army, proud but certainly not keen. Reg is now a convenient thorn for Labour as for Fus Gentles family they are being shameless used by the socialists loonys.

Once more I dont mean to be callous but there is so much emotion on this issue it is clouding any realism. Would the dead want their familys kicking up such a stink? I dont think many squaddies give a damm for the rights or wrongs of any conflict, its not a democracy and if you dont like it join the Salvation Army.

Their deaths in service is one issue, the war as a whole is another
 
#15
The truth is that Bliar lied to the Great British public. He did it to get into bed with Bush, why couldn't they just tell us the truth that they wanted Hussein out and tell us to go for it? All the b*****ks about WMD was always going to get peoples goats up. All because Bush had to finish his dads' fight.

In the 80's when Maggie went to war against the Argies did she lie to us? I think not. At least we knew what we were fighting for. She didn't b***sh1t us that they were deploying Nukes or anything.
So yes i think we should have an enquirey into why we were lied to.

When signing on yes you do have to do what you are ordered to do, but you don't have to carry out unlawful acts forced upon you by the government of the time.

Militant Rant Over.
 

Rod924

LE
Kit Reviewer
#16
I hope that they get their enquiry that would expose all the fcuking lies that el Presidente and his crownies have been telling. Equipement shortages? No, it's all there! Actual post war plan? Of course we have one!

I hate poloticians with a passion, even after 91, Soames could not admit he was on the board of the Agrochem company that sold non licenced chemicals that could have caused GWS.

BUT sadly, I fear that they won't :( It will be the normal cover-up! Why? Well he can't even be arrsed to personally speak to the families of the bereaved or visit injured personnel - Mrs T wrote personal letters to each and everyone killed in the Falkalnds. :evil:
 
#17
I seem to remember the goverment back in "82 actually had an int heads up on what was about to happen in the Falklands; good old Maggie, bless her etc. etc. a lot of young men on BOTH sides died for f*ck all, guess what, mineral and oil deposits found in the Falklands.........really, what a surprise...........

no different from Iraq. no, i'm not a lefty, far from it, but dont kid yourself into thinking Telic would have been any different under the tories.......

RANT OVER
 
#18
warrydave said:
guess what, mineral and oil deposits found in the Falklands.......
I think youll find that that is an urban myth, as is the one about land owners in the Falklands only owning down to 6 feet because of the minerals. A survey team went down there years ago and reported that there were more minerals in the local genepool than in the land itself.

If there were mineral and oil deposits of such vastness, wed have been ripping the place to pieces ages ago to get at it.
 
#19
In the 80's when Maggie went to war against the Argies did she lie to us? I think not. At least we knew what we were fighting for
You mean you knew about the 60billion barrels of oil under the islands?
That is 50% of what the Iraqis have got BTW.

Click here for more info

You can even get in on the action if you want..

Buy some Falklands Oil shares.

Oh and just to show it isn't all an urban myth. Take a look at the governments oil drilling website. Especially the results pages of the test wells already drilled.

North Falkland Basin – well results
 
#20
OldSnowy said:
If we only fought in 'just' wars, and refused all other times, the Army would be a pretty pathetic organisation, something like the Bundeswhr at the moment.
Dear OldSnowy! I propose you next time to attack Russia. Last war between our countries was 150 years ago. Would it be a 'just' war?
 

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