Our European Friends

Now we just need a thread on if there was WW3, which countries would be allies.

USA/UK etc - V's China/Russia/Iran/North Korea etc...

How many would people would die, who would win, what would happen to the losers - ie would their countries be split up/renamed etc. Would we be bombed back into the stone age.....I sometimes wonder about things like this and think it's only just a matter of time before this is going to happen - maybe even in my lifetime.
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
These are members of the French army SF, 1er RPIMa, not SF Gp BE.
Yeah, the left-inclined berets are a clue. Although, I thought the regimental motto, pace 3 and 4 SAS, was 'Qui Ose, Gagne' - interesting that the fanion has it in the original English.
 
...to say nothing of rather saucy Belgique camo pattern which is.... distinctive.

But surprinsigly effective in central Europe.

SFG BE has been issued Crye Multicam for some years now.

The king and his men...

NgDV9Wb.jpg
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
I remember doing a thing for I (BE) Corps in the 80s and seeing the roadside ditches absolutely full of snoozing Belgique conscripts during an FTX. The poor darlings had just completed a strenuous 10km road march in CEFO - in the dark, the horror, the horror. I recall looking at their Eerste Sergeant-Majoor and thinking 'there's good eating on that guy, he could feed a platoon for a week, easy'.
 
Now we just need a thread on if there was WW3, which countries would be allies.

USA/UK etc - V's China/Russia/Iran/North Korea etc...

How many would people would die, who would win, what would happen to the losers - ie would their countries be split up/renamed etc. Would we be bombed back into the stone age.....I sometimes wonder about things like this and think it's only just a matter of time before this is going to happen - maybe even in my lifetime.

Will all the black midgets in the world be fighting all the white midgets, in this world war you speak of?
 
Regarding your take on France, I would argue that while some elements are still valid, others have aged a bit.

Don’t necessarily play well with others


I think that there has been a lot of improvement in that area. French forces operate with allies in all their current theater of operations, be it in the Sahel, in the Levant, at sea, in the air or in the Baltics. And there are a lot of « returning customers » such as the Belgians or Danes or Spaniards which means that the first experience was positive.

The attractivness of operating with the French has grown considerably and an initiative such as TF Takuba in which several EU nations accept to join a French-led coalition in the Sahel to train and then lead into combat malian forces is a very good illustration of the level of trust French forces now command.

Pretend to like the Bundeswehr

There is less and less pretending actually…the generation of officers and NCOs which knew and appreciated the Cold war BW has all but disappeared now and there is little else than contempt for the constant whinning coming from over the Rhine

not great with Americans

The relationship with the US is actually excellent, in all fields. The metrics for getting US respect is to actually do things and shed blood and the US appreciate that the French do both.
 
But surprinsigly effective in central Europe.

SFG BE has been issued Crye Multicam for some years now.

The king and his men...

View attachment 557477

Now we just need a thread on if there was WW3, which countries would be allies.

USA/UK etc - V's China/Russia/Iran/North Korea etc...

How many would people would die, who would win, what would happen to the losers - ie would their countries be split up/renamed etc. Would we be bombed back into the stone age.....I sometimes wonder about things like this and think it's only just a matter of time before this is going to happen - maybe even in my lifetime.

Indeed, Multicam could make WW3 ground combat rather complicated:

1615807434508.png

1615807471789.png

1615807592357.png

1615807901831.png
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
Regarding your take on France, I would argue that while some elements are still valid, others have aged a bit.

Don’t necessarily play well with others


I think that there has been a lot of improvement in that area. French forces operate with allies in all their current theater of operations, be it in the Sahel, in the Levant, at sea, in the air or in the Baltics. And there are a lot of « returning customers » such as the Belgians or Danes or Spaniards which means that the first experience was positive.

The attractivness of operating with the French has grown considerably and an initiative such as TF Takuba in which several EU nations accept to join a French-led coalition in the Sahel to train and then lead into combat malian forces is a very good illustration of the level of trust French forces now command.

Pretend to like the Bundeswehr

There is less and less pretending actually…the generation of officers and NCOs which knew and appreciated the Cold war BW has all but disappeared now and there is little else than contempt for the constant whinning coming from over the Rhine

not great with Americans

The relationship with the US is actually excellent, in all fields. The metrics for getting US respect is to actually do things and shed blood and the US appreciate that the French do both.
Reasonable points to make, although I cleave to my major thesis on la belle France - that she, quite properly, holds French national interests absolutely superior to any others and will always default to a position of promoting and defending those interests when faced with any sort of forced choice.

I'm a fan of both the French and their worldview, in case that wasn't clear and often wish the UK would take a similar line.
 
Superb assessment.

I could add - don't f**k with the Greeks.
For ALL their faults ( I lived and worked in Crete for 10 years ) they are a brave, proud and stubborn people.

People forget that for more than 12 months after Dunkirk - the only European countries still fighting the Axis was us and the Greeks.
The Poles were still fighting the Germans, both in Poland and elsewhere. They never surrendered or stopped fighting.
 
The Poles were still fighting the Germans, both in Poland and elsewhere. They never surrendered or stopped fighting.

Indeed they did - as Resistance internally and in droves coming over here and forming new Free Polish formations.
Entire RAF Fighter Sqns and a pretty nailsy Polish Parachute Brigade.
 
Hmmm. What about Turkey. Under Erdogan it's become something of a problem child within NATO. If it continues the way it is going: Will it stay in? Do we need it to? Do we want it to? Or will it reverse course and return to the fold? Are its disputes with Greece unsolvable? Is the way it treats the Kurds a show-stopper?
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
Indeed they did - as Resistance internally and in droves coming over here and forming new Free Polish formations.
Entire RAF Fighter Sqns and a pretty nailsy Polish Parachute Brigade.

Bomber squadrons, too (including my grandfather in 304 (Land of Silesia) Squadron.

Also, some rather fighty folk at sea, either in ships and submarines that made it out of the Baltic or Polish crews of RN-supplied craft.
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
Hmmm. What about Turkey. Under Erdogan it's become something of a problem child within NATO. If it continues the way it is going: Will it stay in? Do we need it to? Do we want it to? Or will it reverse course and return to the fold? Are its disputes with Greece unsolvable? Is the way it treats the Kurds a show-stopper?
Turkey
NATO member - in name, at least - but rapidly receding into indifference shading to hostility towards the West. Under Erdogan, keen to asset historic 'Turkic' influence in the Caucasus and Central Asia. Military pretty well-equipped, tough and well-trained, short on talented and skilled senior leadership after post-attempted-coup purges. Has significant interest in preventing emergence of Kurdistan, has dabbled in Syrian affairs, has complex relationship with Russia - currently cordial, but strategic interests, especially in the Straits and Caucasus, incompatible and even directly opposed. Erdogan keen to assert 'Ottoman' values and traditions, directly opposed to secular Kemalist doctrines of Turkish Republic.

At historic loggerheads with Greece - mainly through historical distaste, mistrust and dislike, latterly over offshore resources in the Aegean and around Cyprus.

May well all end up in tears, sooner or later the Generals will discover their bollocks and assert their roles as guarantors of Turkish secular republic.
 
Indeed they did - as Resistance internally and in droves coming over here and forming new Free Polish formations.
Entire RAF Fighter Sqns and a pretty nailsy Polish Parachute Brigade.
First Polish Airborne should've jumped on Warsaw, but did Arnhem instead. 303 Polish Squadron the highest scoring in the Battle of Britain (having been commited late to the battle), Polish Carpathian Brigade fought at Narvik and in the defence of Tobruk. Second Polish Corps took Cassino and Ancona 1st Polish Armoured Div hammered the Germans at Falaise and ended up taking and garrisoning Wilhelmshaven. Polish Squadrons in Bomber Command helped bomb the "guwno" out of Germany. Polish Naval ships fought in the North Atlantic and the D-Day landings, etc. Polish resistance and intelligence network worked across occupied Europe including elements in France and French North Africa which aided Op Torch. Contribution to cracking Enigma and providing accurate intelligence on V weapons. Etc, etc.

Post WW2 demobilised Polish soldiers in the West were recruited and trained in the "Pogon" organisation to be dropped into Poland and coordinate anti-Soviet activity if WW3 kicked off. The program only tailed-off in the sixties or early seventies.

Moscow kept the Warsaw Pact Polish Armed Forces on a very short and tight leash as they did not trust them (rightly so). As far as Poland was concerned only one of its joint invaders of 1939 had been defeated the other one still needed tearing down.

The current Polish Armed Forces take the majority of their history and traditions from the Armed Forces of the Polish Second Republic of between the World Wars and the Polish Armed Forces of WW2.
 
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Hmmm. What about Turkey. Under Erdogan it's become something of a problem child within NATO. If it continues the way it is going: Will it stay in? Do we need it to? Do we want it to? Or will it reverse course and return to the fold? Are its disputes with Greece unsolvable? Is the way it treats the Kurds a show-stopper?

Erdogan wont live forever but every passing day takes that country further away from our ideology.
And who is to say if his successor wont be even worse.

I may be a bit biased here but if NATO or just the Yanks thought Turkey had gone too far - Greece would open its arms and gladly take its place.
 
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