OUOTC at Pirbright this weekend

giggles

You really don't get it, do you? Never mind.
 
ubuntu said:
Bravo_Bravo said:
Bleat, whine, bleat.

The fact that your only "response" ( three times now? ) is that I'm a tour dodger says somewhat more about your inferiority complex than anything else.

Man up, deal with it.
I just have a serious issue with someone as low down the career food chain as you criticising young people who may one day become officers. Given that that's something you will never attain to, it seems a bit off.
1. Aren't we an arrogant cnut today? I suppose you're the CGS then :roll:

2. Most of them will never become officers. Young people who wish to go to RMAS often join the TA or go TASO.

3. The army has standards. Everyone who wears the uniform should meet them. It is not a free ride for wasters to play with gucci kit.
 
ubuntu said:
I just have a serious issue with someone as low down the career food chain as you criticising young people who may one day become officers. Given that that's something you will never attain to, it seems a bit off.
One of the core uses of the experience of SNCO's is to give them the credibility, as opposed to the rank, to provide "words of advice" to young officers (trainees, OTC, RD or whatever) to enable them to learn the many aspects of their job. How this advice is given is variable but a public bollocking is not beyond the bounds of Army propriety - even for more senior officers (Mike Jackson's autobiography recounts receiving one from GSM London for tardiness on parade when he was CGS - IIRC).

While some advice may require detailed relevant experience to be appropriate, dress standards, behaviour in an all-ranks mess and similar should be within the competence of any NCO.

I have to say that if you are going to let standards drop at any point, doing it at a basic training establishment like Pirbright is particularly bad drills. On that note, see some of you at RAF XXXXX shortly :D
 

Hopkins

Old-Salt
ubuntu said:
I just have a serious issue with someone as low down the career food chain as you criticising young people who may one day become officers. Given that that's something you will never attain to, it seems a bit off.
You really are the sort of tw-at that earns the UOTC its reputation.

I have to admit there are a (very) few spectacularly good UOTC cadets (I can even think of a tall and short couple of YOs from Oxford, one with a boxing blue who fit that category) but they are so outnumbered by your sort I have to wonder why they stay.

May one day become officers? No more so than any other undergraduate.
 
Bravo_Bravo said:
Bleat, whine, bleat.

The fact that your only "response" ( three times now? ) is that I'm a tour dodger says somewhat more about your inferiority complex than anything else.

Man up, deal with it.
I know of several otc cadets who left the otc, went on tour and then returned to the otc. Obviously all men with far more balls than you. And you have neatly dodged all the questions that have been thrown at you.

I also know of many ex otc cadets who are now serving soldiers and officers in both the regular and TA.

B_Z your comment on people becoming TASO is based on what experience? If you look across these forums when someone asks about joining the OTC while at uni there is a resounding "do it".

Having said that the OTC does have more than it's fair share of choppers who should be encouraged to leave.
 

Hopkins

Old-Salt
The_Green_Man said:
I know of several otc cadets who left the otc, went on tour and then returned to the otc.
Really - as what? The MoD themselves say ""UOTCs are military units but it is not about training students for war."

Given that UOTC OCdts are not trained soldiers they would have to break all sorts of rules to do so. Unless of course you mean they transferred to the 'real' TA or joined up as regulars did CMS or RMAS and then came back some time later as instructors or officers. Which is not quite what you are trying to make out.

I have met several who have have has enough of the 'fun and games' at UOTC and transferred to the TA done their training and deployed, including sadly one who didn't come back.

This does not make the majority, especially Ubuntu any less choppers wasting taxpayers money though.

The_Green_Man said:
Having said that the OTC does have more than it's fair share of choppers who should be encouraged to leave.
But they arn't are they
 
Hopkins said:
The_Green_Man said:
I know of several otc cadets who left the otc, went on tour and then returned to the otc.
Really - as what? The MoD themselves say ""UOTCs are military units but it is not about training students for war."

Given that UOTC OCdts are not trained soldiers they would have to break all sorts of rules to do so. Unless of course you mean they transferred to the 'real' TA or joined up as regulars did CMS or RMAS and then came back some time later as instructors or officers. Which is not quite what you are trying to make out.

I have met several who have have has enough of the 'fun and games' at UOTC and transferred to the TA done their training and deployed, including sadly one who didn't come back.

This does not make the majority, especially Ubuntu any less choppers wasting taxpayers money though.

The_Green_Man said:
Having said that the OTC does have more than it's fair share of choppers who should be encouraged to leave.
But they arn't are they
No I mean what I say. They were in the otc, then they left to join another unit in order to go on tour before returning and rejoining the otc to complete their uni education.

I would argue that the otc produces a fair portion of excellent soldiers/officers while having it's fair share of choppers. A problem shared by the TA and Regular army.
 
I'd argue that the "fair portion of excellent soldiers / officers" where not actually produced by the OTC, but had decided pre-OTC that they wanted to go Regular / TA and joined the OTC while completing their degree.

Ref Qs I've dodged - are you whining because I've not taken your question about sausages seriously?

Man up, and have a wee think about the impression you are creating of the OTC ( clue - whiney, defensive, blinkered arrogance, etc. )
 

Hopkins

Old-Salt
The_Green_Man said:
No I mean what I say. They were in the otc, then they left to join another unit in order to go on tour before returning and rejoining the otc to complete their uni education.
I say again: really, what as?

One year to do UOTC training, then CMS(R) and Phase 2 in their chosen trade, not much less than a year away for a 6 month tour and then back to uni and UOTC. Can't say I can think of any examples.

Ex-TA and Reg who have done a tour then gone to Uni and UOTC, yes. UOTC-tour-UOTC, really?

It is a bit steep, as someone who has chosen to join a non-mobilisable cadet unit when they could have joined the TA, to call a mobilisable TA NCO a war dodger.
 
And on the subject of OTCs, the ULOTC TASOs I saw at the same venue looked like soldiers ( if somewhat spottier ).

So it can be done
 
To be honest, only one question really matters to me.

Bravo_Bravo, you are ( I take it from your previous posts ) an NCO.

Did you approach the said scruffy / bean stealing OCdts and reprimand them appropriately? Or speak to their DS about their dress and behaviour?

If so, fine.

If not, why not?

Obviously ARRSE is for for everyone and pretty much everything. If you want to use it for minor slagging then that's fine. But bleating online without the balls to simultaneously confront issues appropriately in real life seems pretty sad to me. And an indictment of any Offr / NCO who falls into the trap.

I don't mind the blokes whinging - perpetual dripping is one of their few luxuries. The remainder of us lucky enough to exercise command shouldn't shirk our responsibility to step in and grip the situation after an inward groan.
 
Bravo_Bravo said:
Ref Qs I've dodged - are you whining because I've not taken your question about sausages seriously?
Well as that seems to be your main concern then yes, have you never taken an extra sausage? You picked up these cadets for it so surely you must be a shining example for the rest of us to follow? Or did you just see it as an excuse to have a pop?

And Hopkins I'm not a member of the otc and I have been mobilised so I feel quite secure in calling bb a war dodger.
 
Bundo

I did approach the OTC members ref the theft of food, and pointed out that depriving another man of his rations really was not on. Three blokes, seven puddings = theft. I could not see any of their DS at the time and given that I had a meeting with the CGS briefing team very shortly afterwards, I did not take the time to track them down. In any case, the matter seems to have been dealt with by their DS that night.

Green Man - you do seem to have a bit of a BB sausage fixation... have you ever heard of this chap Freud? And how many sausages can you take at once? I limit myself to one, unless all the blokes have been through and the food would otherwise have been binned. Standards, etc. Bears no relation to the question at hand, but there you are. No doubt you'll come back and accuse me of lying.

Oh, noting that you are "not a member of the OTC" - but you where, weren't you?
 

Bee_Gee.

Old-Salt
I was there with my Battalion for a Range Weekend and uhhhhhhhhh well at several points during our time in the cookhouse the word "Haircut" was mentioned to some of the 1st year OTC Cadets. albeit i know a few higher grade Officer cadets from OUOTC who are incredibly well turned out. Just a shame about the few who ruined it for their Unit.
 

Gremlin0790

Old-Salt
I have said this before and I will say it again: I have met my fair share of choppers who are supposedly trained soldiers in TA Group A units. I would barely trust them with a spoon let alone a rifle. There are a lot of quality OTC cadets out there and it would be quite silly to tar them all with the same brush. If the OCdt.s in question have not had a haircut it's the staff's jobs to grip them (regs and TA I might add). If they haven't they are not doing their job properly. Most OCdt.s will go and get one by themselves, but it is incredibly naive to assume they all will without some 'persuasion'.

The OTC has survived nearly 101 years. It appears then that someone on a lot higher pay and far more important than us has decided that the OTC is worth it.
 
Gremlin0790 said:
The OTC has survived nearly 101 years. It appears then that someone on a lot higher pay and far more important than us has decided that the OTC is worth it.
It's amazing how far the hierarchy will pimp themselves for a few E2 Lt Col posts carrying the "Command" rather than "SO1" tag. Or am I being cynical again?

Note - that says nothing at all about the quality of OTC Cadets but you raised the "higher pay grade".
 

Hopkins

Old-Salt
The_Green_Man said:
Bravo_Bravo said:
Ref Qs I've dodged - are you whining because I've not taken your question about sausages seriously?
Well as that seems to be your main concern then yes, have you never taken an extra sausage? You picked up these cadets for it so surely you must be a shining example for the rest of us to follow? Or did you just see it as an excuse to have a pop?

And Hopkins I'm not a member of the otc and I have been mobilised so I feel quite secure in calling bb a war dodger.
Green_Man I SAY AGAIN, re your OTC mobilisations - what as?
 

overpromoted

Old-Salt
Some people seem to be trying to defend the Ocdts' food theft and lack of haircut - that just isn't on. Likewise, I don't have a problem with people who think that the OTC as an institution isn't worthwhile: There are good arguments to that effect, but it's been done to the death in other threads.

What I object to is the OP's presumption that minor-league naughtiness is worthy of a write-up on Arrse. I seriously believe that if it wasn't the OTC, he wouldn't have mentioned it at all; which is the point I tried to make in an earlier post.
 

getagrip

Swinger
I was there on a MATTs weekend.

Oxford OTC were a shambles. I first thought they were cadets looking at them!
I spoke to one lad there who looked like he'd never shaved before in his life, and had never ironed his uniform.

Was also appaled to see them all taking far more than their fair share of food, when the scoff house was clearly booked up to the max with 3 units using it.

Even though they might be on their module 1, there is absolutely no excuse for their poor state of dress. I spend tuesdays with London OTC, and their recruits seem to be of a far higher standard in terms of dress and presentation.

Looks to me more like a failure in the chain of command, someone needs to get a grip of them and show them how to dress!
 
The OTC is taught how to wear a uniform correctly, and especially when out and about it's a shame they let themselves down. Fact is they can be AGAI'd etc, as are subject to military law.

HOWEVER....every OTC has an abundance of regular staff, at least an RSM & 3 WO2s not to mention officers and the like; why then were these OCdts allowed to appear as scruffy messes?

Also don't let a minority of OCdts tar the lot of the "student wasters".....A few give it a bad name, but the majority don't.
 

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