OTC Wings...what is the point?

Discussion in 'OTC and ACF' started by Burgers, May 30, 2005.

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  1. I understand that a large number of OTCs have separate 'Wings' for their cadets; on joining they can enter the INF, ENG, SIGs or ARTY amongst others.

    As the only knowledge that is required at RMAS and other Army Basic trg institutions is basic Infantry skills and tactics....then why bother in complicating things?

    Can someone please explain to me why there exist these complex special to arms Wings, when most OCDT's have issues doing basic skills and drills (see belushi's post on this forum of that name)?

    I am aware that the REMF wings will want to exist for their corp's recruitment, but other than that, can anyone explain to me why these exist?
  2. read the otc mission...
    Basically, its there to provide non potetial officers with a greater understanding of what the the army does. For potential officers, it is met to help give a greater understanding if the wider army and also help as a recruitment aid. I'm not joining the arm in which I currently am involved, but I now know what they can do for me as well. Hence I would call it a sensible idea, if an expensive one.
  3. Because different people enjoy different things.

    Some people prefer to learn to weld things and drag trucks out of swamps. Others prefer to blow things up. Still more like waking up next to the guns on Sunday morning to the smell of sizzling bacon and the knowledge that the guys in Inf have been stagging on all night.

    Having different wings makes it easier for the OTC to retain more people. If people drop out of the OTC after a term because they're bored, or don't enjoy what Inf does, then the OTC is failing in its mission, of having people move on from it with a positive view of the Army - instead, they remember it as something which either bored them or which they hated every minute of.

    Belushi's stories are amusing and contain a kernel of truth - but most OCdts aren't quite that bad (though we all know some who are). You couldn't compare an OTC's average skills and drills to a regular or a normal TA unit's, but that's not the point of an OTC. OCdts don't need skills and drills to be razor sharp.

    And I only know one OCdt called Tarquin, and hardly any Percivals.

  4. Aah, did your old OTC not have wings? The reason for this is that part of the OTC remit is to provide potential officers with as wide experience of the army as possible and the army is not all infantry. Without these wings what most of the corps do would be a black area to officer cadets and it improves their knowledge and understanding oh how the Army operates.

    Granted, a lot of the OTC have issues with basic skills, but we have to remember that there are a lot of proficient people in their ranks as well. Added to that, of course, is that the OTC's main function is not to provide soldiers for operations. Their main purpose isn't even to provide inflow for RMAS, so your argument about what is needed for RMAS goes out the window. Tell an arty or eng bod that what they do isn't real soldiering and I suspect they will make their feelings pretty clear. My old OTC inf coy has a good splattering of Cambrian medals and their gun trp has been used as a demo trp for regular soldiers on more than one occasion.

    In any case, in practice, those OTCs that do not have specialist wings tends to pick and mix and do a little of everything so they are not pure inf as such. This also seems to be a waste of non-infantry staff, a lot of whom are highly experienced and their knowledge would not be used to its full potential.
  5. It could also be argued that doing infantry stuff all the time, for some people, may be boring. Diversity is the spice of life and some may not enjoy inf stuff so let them do something they get enthusiastic about they'll probably stay longer and enjoy OTC more.
  6. Oh and what are those exactly? Do you actually know what the Echelon system is?
  7. I owe all that I am today to my time in the Mobile Field Laundry Wing of *UOTC.
  8. For god sake we've been through this before... The enemy is in front, you dont need to worry what the bit behind does as long as the stuff keeps turning up.
  9. Without being too pedantic RMAS is not an infantry battle school - the inf pl is used as a means of developing and assessing leadership and the command tools. It is simple and effective. As far as basic infantry skills and tactics are concerned RMAS teaches them.

    I personally welcome the idea that people may have been quite adventurous whilst at Uni and in the OTC might have learnt a bit of useful stuff other than how to conduct a pl attk - bearing in mind that RMAS have to unteach a lot of bad habits.

    The majority of OCdts go to RMAS with little perspective on the roles of the Arms and Services (or the differences between them). Being in the Inf Wing is not going to make you a better officer if you go to RMAS, whereas having a wider view of the Army may well do.

    As far as the only knowledge is concerned... well I'm stunned that RCB hasn't incorporated the section attack as a command task.

    The only overcomplication I have come across is people carrying too much baggage when they go to RMAS.
  10. Manoeuvre Warfare anyone? Joe, done Junior Brecon yet? Or even Phase 1 for that matter?

    We will continue going through this for as long as we get weak and ineffectual attacks at "other arms and services" from people who clearly haven't a clue about the All Arms Battlespace.

    By all means use arrse to have a go at anything that you don't understand but do expect a comeback. Bit like what would happen to you if you thought that the enemy was only ever in front...
  11. aaargh come and join Wales UOTC, we don't bother with all that special to arms Boll*x, WUTOC is Pure inf all the way...

    Saying that I would'nt mind doing special to arms training as patrolling round sennybridge getboring...very quickly, but hey at least we're all fit and manage to do better than some other OTC's at estimates, orders and all that malarkey.
  12. I see that many people are arguing in favour of Wings as adding awareness of the wider army/change in tactics/variation.

    1) Surely once you are in your wing, this variation is reduced right down to your arm. E.g. Arty wings only do arty things, thus making them as boring as infantry, just in a different way? No-one gets a wider view: everyone gets a narrow view of their corps.

    2) Ref: RMAS, learning the infantry way of command and control is therefore a useful tool to have in your armoury before turning up, whereas knowing how to lay a bridge/ clean a 105 is not. Presumably. Well-practised field skills would also make those nasty execises that little bit easier...(and don't get me started on the amount of money the army is spending on OCDTs who will have nothing to do with them in the future. 'Wider image' indeed...)

    3) Abacus, we all know that when we use the word REMF, you know exactly what we mean. Go start a thread called "misuse of the word 'echelon' in inter-corps abuse" or somesuch.

    Tell me if I'm wrong. I've never seen one of these multi-wing OTC's in action, but I get the feeling that it is not quite the same as an All arms Battlegroup.
  13. It's great to hear the well informed opinions which burgers has about REMFs. Never heard of a battlegroup? All arms training? That's right, you haven't so you haven't the faintest idea about what a battlegroup is capable of. You aren't even a trained soldier yet you sit there and slag off the REMFs. At least they are on the battlefeild as oppossed to still being at school!
  14. Well I know what you mean now but I couldn't be sure that you weren't just being thick rather than trying to be abusive. And someone who quotes Army Tactics and Doctrine in his signature block needs to be prepared for incoming when he gets it wrong.

    Tell me if I'm wrong, but surely the beauty of arrse is that you have a go, someone has a go back. Most users don't complain, they just get on with it until one or other party gets bored or gives up.

    Now the first part of your post:

    is really rather good as a topic for discussion. I'll stand back and watch for a time from somewhere a lot further back than REMFdom - Home Service MF in my current post - not that I'm happy about that before you start! (The Home Service tag rather than the MF one) :wink:
  15. Ahh, Plant life, it's always so lovely to read your posts...always full of useful information, helpful hints or witty observations. For example:

    What are you doing here in the playground then you pervert?

    Fcuk off.