OTC Funding to be reduced

Discussion in 'OTC and ACF' started by Outstanding, Aug 15, 2006.

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  1. Apparently it has been dedided to reduce funding of OTCs. This may curtail camps, skiing and other expeds. Is this the thinend of the detah of OTCs completely?
     
  2. I have never been part of an OTC so forgive me for asking but in these days of Defence cuts and overstretch at all levels of the Army, what does the OTC do?

    Can we deploy them like the TA and therefore get value for money for them?
     
  3. Hopeso, theya re a waste of cash. Money that should go to the front line troops. If they want the perks then they shouldn't be paid. Simple. They will get enough benefits out of us as it is, with all the training, etc.

    I remember my Sqn OC eying some with distaste, because his lads were lumbered with those handbag bergans and iron sights whilst deployed where as these muppets were cutting about with all the gear....
     
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  4. There is a lot of money thrown at UOTCs. The budget for some of the high standard unis such as Cambridge, Oxford etc is huge. The reason behind it is to attract 'high standard' candidates for Sandhurst. As far as I know a few years ago the PSIs weren't allowed to drive because if they had an accident they would get billed but if the OTC guys had an accident no further action. Another rumour I heard was that after the OTC guys had finished uni their 1157s were written off. These are just things I've heard so I'm waiting out to be corrected.
    One thing that really p155s me off is the amount of adventure training the OTC gets. A couple of years ago I went to Bavaria to do some skiing (first bit of adventure training in 5 years) and there were 8 or 9 UTOC there. I went on my MLT course 2 months ago and again there were about 8 or 9 OTC there doing different courses. How come OTC guys get on adventure training courses both in the UK and abroad so easily when the rest of us struggle to get a week in Wales every 2 years? I'm not bitter (honestly) but why should the OTC get all the perks of being in green kit (RESPOSD, adventure training etc) when we work our balls off doing back to back tours, a hell of a lot of exercises and don't get the gizzits because the slots are filled up with OTC?
     
  5. The criticisms (envy) being thrown at otcs here are reasonable (apart from the 1157s stuff, that is bollocks).

    However, when all said and done the OTCs are an excellent recruiting tool, both for getting new people in who would not have thought of joining, and keeping people whose interest over uni might have wained. I remember reeading (I think in the RUSI journal) that it takes £10000 in recruting to get a soldier to the first day of basic. I don't know about officer recruiting, but presumably it is similar, and OTCs are not bad value when compared to this.

    Certainly the OTCs could do with having their fat trimmed a little. There is absolutely no reason why OTCs should have dpm plce for instance, especially when some group A units still have combat handbags, but other than these superficial things their scales are not that offensive to the defence budget. Also there is criticism of the amount of mtds OTC cadets are allowed. However, these large numbers of mtds usually become available because of the drop out rate in the first year, so there are pools of mtds at unit level.

    It is sad to hear that the Gunners are going to cut UOTC gunnery. Although this represented a large financial and manpower commitment 'in my time' it produced a steady flow of officers and Gunner officers. To give a quick stat. In one year at KGVI all 4 members of our CP became officers (2reg/2TA) 3 of whom became gunners.

    The next year all six of the command appointments (foo, bro, 2 x no1s, CPO, cP sgt) became officers, 5 of whom went gunners. That year also produced another 1 x reg gunner officer, 1 x ta gunner officer, 1 x rmp officer, 2 x ramc officers (non-med), 1 x hac trooper, 1 x agc officer at least (there may be others I don't know about or can't remember). Although it is possible to prove anything with statistics, and one cannot say how much the OTC played in these people getting commissioned, and it was clearly a bit of a freak year it is clearly indicative of the possibilities. Not a bad return on a few mtds and 50 rds of HE.
     
  6. I've recently completed my 3 years in the OTC. During my time, I felt there was a definite shift towards trying to put people through the TA Commissioning Course, as well as increasing the number of TA Sponsored Officers (TASO).

    Perhaps this is the future of the OTCs where by they take Officer Cadets from various local TA units and put them through the specific Officer training, before sending them off to Sandhurst for 3 weeks after which they return to their parent unit? TASOs are paid by their parent unit so that would allow OTC budgets to be reduced.

    Plant_life, I was always under the impression that when it came to AT courses OTCs were at the bottom of the pile, indeed I only got on a sailing course this summer as a reserve because someone else pulled out.
     
  7. All the old reasons.

    OTCs promote the Army to future "Captains of Industry", how true this is these days with degrees in basket weaving and Lego studies I don't know.

    85% of TA Officers come through the OTC system therefore, no OTC a lot fewer TA Officers (although why regular officers couldn't be posted to TA units, like the PSIs are I don't know).

    IMHO the wings (Engineers, Sigs, RA) some UOTCs have are un-necessary the kit is expensive and the money could be spent on other things. Sheff UOTC is all infantry and while chatting to a lass from Cambs UOTC (The most highly funded UOTC) on our summer camp she said Cambs couldn't go on exercise with anything like the numbers we (Sheff) do and Sheff is the lowest funded UOTC but year on year sends one of the highest numbers of OCdts to complete TACC.

    Hmmm not really justifying their existence, well perhaps it is time for change.

    Or perhaps the government should increase the budget to all parts of the Armed Forces if they expect to continue the current level of global commitment with the BAF.
     
  8. I'd love to know where this figure comes from because I think you're talking balls.
     
  9. Why do they need to be paid though? I can understand some of the stuff they do, it is only the same as Cadets just for older people, but why pay them?

    If these people are truely interested in becoming tomorrows officers then there should be some sort of incentive other than a bit of cash during a lean period.

    I have family members, right now, in the OTC taking all htey can get, including AT abroad, who have no intention of joining up. I can't blame the player (good on 'em) but I CAN blame the game.

    As mentioned there should be no unit out there with better kit than any of the regular or even TA units.
     
  10. It comes from a TA Captain I was given a lecture by, on "Why UOTCs are important".
     
  11. If OTC are responsible for 85% of TA officers the question has to be asked as to why they didn't join the TA from the off.

    What about their contribution to the Regs?

    As for the captains of industry drivel, when a degree actually meant something, aye, maybe. All it means now is that you ahve not washed and smoked pot for three years and maybe swanned off around the world on a "gap year" and smoked pot in different countries.
     
  12. Then I would suggest that if he didn't provide a source, he too is talking balls.

    In responce to chocolate frog: My assumption on why they are paid is to aid those that would have to get a job, otherwise. If little billy needed to cash to work, his weekends would be taken up with serving slop in Maccy D's and a potential recruit would be lost. Not all students are sent to uni with a blank cheque from mummy and daddy and want to play at being soldiers for a couple of weekends.
     
  13. Most OCdts couldn't do OTC and a part time job as well as thier degree, and as most part time jobs at uni require you to put in a significant part of your hours in on weekends, it would be near impossible to go on exercise twice a month as well, rendering being part of a UOTC pointless.
     
  14. Having just left OTC....

    I agree to some extent (ok quite a large extent!) that UOTCs recieve a disproportionate amount of funding.

    However, the graduate job market is the most competetive its ever been, the Army is having to compete with companies willing to pay far higher wages than they are. The key weapon in the British Army's recruiting arsenal is "lifestyle": no other employers offer the same opportunities for travel, adventure training, using Gucci kit, shooting big guns etc.

    It is all well and good spouting the usual career chat at potential offficers and boring them with power point, UOTCs provide the opportunity for potential officers to see the various perks and benefits first hand.

    I can understand why Reg/TA units get annoyed when they see OTC guys cheesing about with better kit and on AT courses, but its a bit of a bigger picture thing, yea they may not recruit every OTC member into the forces, but perhaps a few good officers is worth the cost of some webbing and a week skiing in France?
     
  15. Having just left OTC....

    I agree to some extent (ok quite a large extent!) that UOTCs recieve a disproportionate amount of funding.

    However, the graduate job market is the most competetive its ever been, the Army is having to compete with companies willing to pay far higher wages than they are. The key weapon in the British Army's recruiting arsenal is "lifestyle": no other employers offer the same opportunities for travel, adventure training, using Gucci kit, shooting big guns etc.

    It is all well and good spouting the usual career chat at potential offficers and boring them with power point, UOTCs provide the opportunity for potential officers to see the various perks and benefits first hand.

    I can understand why Reg/TA units get annoyed when they see OTC guys cheesing about with better kit and on AT courses, but its a bit of a bigger picture thing, yea they may not recruit every OTC member into the forces, but perhaps a few good officers is worth the cost of some webbing and a week skiing in France?