OR's win massive payout for ageism???

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by old_bloke, Oct 24, 2003.

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  1. How come officers can stag on until they are 55 but OR’s “must” retire at 40 or after 22 years service? I have read several articles stating the physical factors and such and also the slowing down of promotion across the Army but it does not seem to affect those old and bold Officers from remaining in gainful employment until they are 55.

    Do you think that with the implementation of the new European law “Employment Directive on Equal Treatment” and the UK’s own DTI’s “ Equality and Diversity: Age Matters paper” lead to the MOD being sued by OR’s after being forced to retire after 22 years as has happened when the laws regarding pregnancy and homosexuality were changed.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. anyone got an internet link to these papers, i wouldnt mind a read.

    I doubt anyone would be in line for a payout, we all signed terms of service with the 22 year carear in place. I do however expect the length of service to change, giving more the opportunity to serve beyone the 22 year point.
     
  3. Out of curiosity I have just had a browse through the document I posted the link for.

    Not surprisingly the get-out clauses that will probably apply to the armed forces are in the consultation document at paragraphs 3.15 and 3.16.

    Still worth a read though.
     
  4. In the next few years the Versatile Engagement will come into place which will allow OR's to serve for 37 years. There will however be certain criteria to be met for this. There will be something called a General service Warrant Officer and other new termiinoligy watch this space.
     
  5. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    Alot of the Technical Medical CEG's are becoming GSWO's on completion of training or on joining for virtue of their qualifications, i.e. degree etc. (Apparantly it save the Army commissioning them)

    Also they will have the opportunity to serve until they are 55 just like the RN and RAF OR's.
     
  6. How come there's a Welsh version for everything.......can't they read English? Thick tw*ts.
     
  7. I don't know so much mate, but the gays and tarts all signed the same contracts that we did, agreeing that they were not going to engage in uphill gardening or pregnancy and there's a few of them (not all) who have/are taking the MoD to Europe over the issue. In fact there's been a few successful claims by Doris's, discharged on the grounds of having been pregnant (shame we got rid of that rule really, isn't it?), so I can't see why there wouldn't be a success by anyone who left at 22.

    Some bugger will give it a go........good luck to them if they do.

    I get the feeling though, that things ARE about to change as far as terms of service are concerned and I foresee some changes in the next 12 months. I can also foresee some people who recently (in the past 3 years) left being asked to sign back up again. We've done that before. It may be just specific areas (trades etc), but we're not recruiting, despite what they tell us and the TA are going to be a spent force over the next few years, as they have been f*cked about by TELIC. Doesn't matter what your opinion on that last bit is, a lot of the militia lost a lot of dosh due to TELIC . The MoD haven't played this one right at all and TELIC has caught them with their pants down big style. Very few ethnic minorities are interested in a service career and certainly less than the amount the government would liked to have recruited. TELIC saw off the muslims who harboured an interest (although I don't doubt that one or two still joined up) in the Army.


    I would imagine that those of us who have any more than 2 years service left, will see the implementation of a wide extended service drive. Someone on another thread mentioned JNCOs being commissioned..........I think that you'll see a bit more of that as well in the near future. Officer recruiting isn't too hot at the minute and look at the state on some of them who are getting through. They are equitable to the the standard of Tom we are getting. Young JNCOs of high calibre can be moulded, whereas it's difficult to mould the dyed in the wool WO1/WO2. Our Officer Corps is dying on its feet, it needs fresh blood. I foresee some golden career opportunities for some.

    The futures bright lads...........the future's extended service contracts.

    Anyone wishing to disagree.......please state your alternative to saving this underweight Army from anorexia.

    We can have all the 'fighting above our weight' jargon you wish to spew out. But an Army needs people. Too many have left fed up. Too few are holding the fort. They are getting fed up and civvy street is looking better to some every day. Too many deployments. The kids joining today aren't of the mettle to hack it. The young families are pressurising others to leave. Have a good look around and see what's currently left. Well, that'll be gone soon as well if the MoD doesn't act quickly.

    Like I said, I believe that we'll see extended service in the next 12 months. Please feel free to come back at me if I'm wrong.

    Todays date is 25 Oct 03. Wait out.

    Mystic Ma.
     
  8. its so that their sheep girlfriends can read it especially bit about a will
    "I Cpl taff Welsh guards of dyfedd wales herby leave all my possesion to Dolly the sheep nears byns farm in the event of my death in combat , cos she was such a good shag and never complained!"
     
  9. I agree with Ma it will be in very soon - perhaps not as soon as 12 months but probably not too long afterwards.

    There will also be a huge recruitment drive as well in the near future too - we might even get some local people to join as well 8O

    I can certainly see the glorious AGC offering service up to 55 for OR's and I would think it will be along the lines of the RAF service, gotta be a certain rank to get an extension etc etc.

    It would certainly fit in more with the new pension scheme too with no immediate pension when you have done your 18 years, just a payment for you to make it to 60 or 65 till the pension kicks in :eek:

    I am all for it at the moment - but I will see where I am when it comes in !!
     
  10. 'Local people'.....LOL....nice one mate! I'm going to steal that one from you!
     
  11. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    What about age related pay, all under 18's or whatever the age take one step forwards...

    And is it right that a Sgt with a wife is getting more than a Sgt without a wife??? Or does that not happen.

    Anyone with time able to check the euro-site?
     
  12. Ma Sonic, Would agree with you on some points in your post. The one i would like to question is where you get your figures that will indeed tell us that we are not recruiting? At this moment in time from a very good source we are turning people away as we have to many, some jobs they will not get into until Sept 2004. As for Officers i cannot comment as he could not get an answer today. The issue with the ethnic minorities is always going to be difficult what with their religion and beliefs etc, ask anyone of them in the street if they consider themselves British what would the answer be, we have a team set up to try and get more from these communitys but it is getting harder and harder due to the Iraqi situation.
     
  13. You have to ask whehter every trade and CEG would work with extended service. The reason for the current 22 year career is because historically the Army has always been a young man's game. The infantry made up the bulk of the Army and after 22 years your average infantryman was knackered (dodgy knees, buggered back etc).

    Today's Army has a lot more technical jobs, and plenty of desk jobs, but it's still the case that the bulk of the Army needs to be young and fit (this post is no disrespect to our more experienced and mature soldiers!).

    I know that there are jobs for older Warrant Officers and LE officers etc, but this is the thin end of a pyramid that needs plenty of youngsters at the bottom, not all of whom can stay until 55.

    With officers, the situation is slightly different, in that despite what the infantry subbies believe, most jobs rapidly become desk jobs, and pretty much all are (bar CO) after the mid thirties. The current arrangements have worked in producing sufficient wastage along the way to keep the pyramid about right. (although now we are seeing a crisis of retention in the middle ranks, and hence a massive shortage of SO2s).