ORs Bar rules regarding stock and PASO etc

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by yimmin, Jan 28, 2009.

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  1. I'm not sure if I'm in the right forum here but if not please redirect me.

    I've just taken over as the Bar Steward (hold the jokes) of the OR's bar in my T.A. unit. We've been having some problems with our new PASO who's trying to find out the in's and out's of a ducks arse regarding what we do, what stock we keep, where it comes from and how much we make.

    He's saying that we should be buying stock from him alone and we should sell it on at what it costs making no profit. We can then go to him and ask for money for functions/improvements/etc.
    He's also asking for keys to the bar, safe & stock room to be able to check up on us anytime he wants.

    firstly i want to know if he is able to do any of this and secondly is there any kind of refernce to rules or guidelines to running the bar?

  2. Is this a Wah ?? Part of the PASOs job spec is to make sure the bar is run properly ! All the stock bought, expendediture made and income generated need to be properly accounted for - and he's usually the man with the books !

    The usual score is that you can make a profit of up to 10-15% - but its held as one element of the overall unit account, your committe can then ask for cash when required for a function or new kit, whatever - He will have books covering all the units accounts.

    Looks like you've had a shite hand-over !! - And yes, theres a pile of Regs on the subject. You seem to have got off on the wrong foot - I'd suggest a long chat with the PASO - and listen this time !
  3. To say the least!!!!

    I was told by one of the SPSI's that we can get stock from anywhere we like to save money, all we have to do is provide a paper trail showing what we've spent and how much we've made.

    There's a safe in the bar about as big as my bergen and he's told us that we're not to keep money in it as if there was a robbery and it was broken into he can't account for that money so it should be kept in his smaller safe in his office. If someone gets into our safe I say they can have the money as a job well done and if they get it off the floor they'll probably fall 4 floors down anyway.

    I understand that he's the man with the money but I don't see why we can't make a little ourselves for extra.
  4. Your mess bar is a Service funds Account - Your OC (probably) is the Managing Trustee and the PSAO will tun the account on his behalf - stocks / supplies / gaming machines are obtained from approved sources and as Trossachs has said the level of profit that can be made (both max and min) is laid down.
  5. I ran the Coy bar at my old unit and bought mainly from NAAFI. Prices were set out already and all the PSAO wanted to do was make sure the till's weren't down.

    If I needed an order through NAAFI or who ever I spoke to the PSAO and he's sort it out for me.

    He left the stock checking etc up to me which was fine by me, even though I was a 2 year Pte at the time!

    T C
  6. Think of the PSAO as a mix of accountant and bank-manager. I'm sure he'll be happy to show you how the books work - basically the overall fund will have seperate colums for each account - big ones for the various Messes/sub unit bars and some smaller one like "presentations" or "Sports", maybe specific purpose funds like " Christmas Lash-Up".

    There is no drama, you'll probably buy most of your stock from a cash & carry - Booker or whatever - but you are limited by the regs on how much profit you can make - it still adds up tho - our fund - for a 150 strong unit - reaches about £25,000 by the summer - before I spend it on buying civvy Adventure Training for Camp.

    Be aware that the MOD is dead hot on accounting for every penny. Many a career has been ended early by a " mistake" in unit funds....
  7. Yeah it seems like there was some creative accounting in the past that has given all of us a bad name and this seems to be passed onto every PASO when they join us.

    As it's just Tuesday nights and the odd weekend I'm thinking £25,000 is a bit optimistic. We just want to be able to get a Decent TV and get the place done up, maybe even a spot of football.

    Does anyone know how to get MOD/NAAFI money to decorate etc?
  8. You might want to see if your Coy/ Reg has a livery company type sponsor arrangement. My old bar got done up that way.

    Good luck!

    T C
  9. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    As previously said the PSAO (Note: Permanent Staff Admin Officer, not PASO) will usually be the fund manager, on behalf of the OC who controls it. If you have been allowed to run it as an off the books, buy it/charge it how you like bar in the past someone's head should roll come SPS inspection time.

    To raise money, your 10% - 15% profit on stock will go a long way. An on-side PSAO will be approaching the RFCA for funds and grants, and looking to hire out your venue for fund raising purposes.

    NAAFI is a commercial concern, and if they are not controlling your every move including stock, staff, opening hours etc then do not expect any support from them.

    A small amount of Coy fund and self help goes a long way!
  10. msr

    msr LE

    You need to approach RFCA and the best way is via your PSAO ;)

    They may be prepared to meet you in the middle for the cost of improvements.

    If not, then as around for painters / carpenters etc in your location and see what can be done from the funds you accumulate.

    P.S. One good way is to get a Banner hardback book, rule a 2.5cm margin and sell 'raffle tickets'. Number the margin for the tickets, get the pot out every drill night / weekend and you should get a healthy amount of money for the raffle (or subsidising the Christmas Party) - if you don't turn up, you can't win a prize. Names against numbers cost 50p.
  11. As has been suggested go back to your PSAO and start again. When I ran our bar I started under the same impression, 'he hides all the money', it all gets 'lost' in the GPF fund etc., 'we never see it back' etc.

    As long as you are both open then this will not be the case. Don't try and 'hide' money, if you do it will just get you charged and kicked out. Equally most PSAO's I have dealt with seem to think that are the guardians of the keys and not accountable to the STABS, just anyone above him.

    A balance needs to be struck, seek his advice and he should help you, if not speak to your CoC. As an example I only found out when I became a troop leader, and saw the job spec, that I was also part of the committee that examined the accounts and decided how it was spent! PSAO was not best pleased when I asked when we met etc., however when dealt with as adults compromises can always be reached. You do have the right, in that position to ask to see the accounts, invoices etc., and if you find a better deal suggest it, this will ensure that profit goes in the right direction.

    Bear in mind also that your functions are funded, to some extent, by your funds, this normally swallows up everything!!

    Two very good fundraisers I found were a pool table and a fruit machine, strike the right deal and you can make enough for that TV etc., however, be prepared for some resistance from Perm Staff, after all they will have to account for it day in and out, (they normally turn out to be the biggest spenders on the slots tho!!).

    Functions can be good fundraisers also, families days, quiz nights etc., there is normally a 'function rate' for drinks (unless that is no longer allowed?) which can make a few extra pounds.

    Decoration wise, probably the RFCA is your best bet, as they deal with the buidings. Again you may have to put in a business case and compete against other departments.

    Finally he is the PSAO not the PASO, even though you may hear him referred to as that!! May save you some grief if you write anything down...
  12. Cheers for all this fellas, some great advice.

    Hopefully I'll eventually be able to pass the bar on with a healthy balance and loking a lot better.

    thanks again.
  13. Your bar will be part of the Sqn/Coy/Bty Account which is a "Service Fund" The running of all Service Funds is governed by Service Funds Regulations, and unit standing orders, each fund also has to have its own charter in order to be compliant with strict rules laid down my the Charity Commissioners. The % profit made by the bar will be laid down by your CO as he has the overall responsibility for all funds in his Regt/Bn. The suppliers you use will also be laid down in standing orders. I think you may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick with your PSAO when you say you can only "buy" stock from him I would think he meant he would either order stock for you or he would give you the bookers card (or whichever C&C you use) - along with the funds you need to purchase stock as all purhases need to go through the books. He should ensure regular stock checks are completed and all taking are paid into the Sqn fund when the check happens. Profit is calculated annually when the account is closed for audit, this profit remains within the fund (GPF) any expenditure other than normal day to day running should only be made when correctly authorised as laid down, again in standing orders. Unfortunately you have been given duff information by your SPSI regarding getting what you want from where you want - these rules and regs are not there just to be a pain in the arrse they also serve to protect you!!

    Ref redecoration etc - this is all covered by RFCA, again speak to your PSAO, he should be able to get the wheels in motion, they may authorise "self help" in which case you may be able to obtain funds from the Sub-Unit (PSAO again!) to buy what you need.
  14. Fingers are getting a bit slow - obviously!!

  15. Buy 2 x Cases of Lager, and 2 x Cases of Bitter per month from the PSAO to construct a paper trail. Then have two ledgers, one showing that the cases gets sold per month, and the other ledger to detail the incoming funds from the beer that you buy from Lidl/other wholesalers. That way you have an unofficial fund for your unit, that can be spent on what the lads want, such as T-Shirts etc. Most PSAO's will turn a blind eye as long as a certain amount of cash is winging its way back to the PRI from the bars activities.

    However, this is all alleged activity that may have gone on at some point, and is produced here as an example, not an instruction. To put this scheme into operation would be most improper. :D