Organization Makes Progress Defeating IEDs

#2
The article only really indicates that something is actually being done about the threat. It does not provide any awe inspiring advancements

Not really anything new to the British, who lead the field on this subject.
 
#3
dingerr said:
The article only really indicates that something is actually being done about the threat. It does not provide any awe inspiring advancements

Not really anything new to the British, who lead the field on this subject.
I would say, that there were somethings in the article that were important.

The fact that more Iraqis are reporting IEDs is important. The best part, IMHO, was the amount of funds, made available to research people, to both come up with counter-measure tactics and equipment, as well as better protection for individuals and vehicles, etc.

Of course, you are right dingerr, you Brits learned a lot in NI, as well as a few other places on IEDs. Many of the tools, that we Americans use were developed by the Brits for NI.

The American military EOD units, and especially the EOD school, have kept abreast of the Brit's experiences over the years and have worked with them as well. I'm sure that a lot of the research, on this problem will be a joint effort. :thumright:
 
#4
Trip_Wire said:
Of course, you are right dingerr, you Brits learned a lot in NI, as well as a few other places on IEDs. Many of the tools, that we Americans use were developed by the Brits for NI.

The American military EOD units, and especially the EOD school, have kept abreast of the Brit's experiences over the years and have worked with them as well.

Whoa! Loved up group hug!
 
#6
DonJohn said:
Rather proves how far sighted our American cousins were to have funded the period unpleasantness in Northern Ireland.
That was a biting first time post!

Welcome to the site and please keep biting!

Litotes
 
#7
Trip_Wire said:
The American military EOD units, and especially the EOD school, have kept abreast of the Brit's experiences over the years and have worked with them as well. I'm sure that a lot of the research, on this problem will be a joint effort. :thumright:

hahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaa :rofl:
 
#8
Call me a cynical old fool but here's what I think will happen.

While the research element is indeed a "joint" effort and the British are leading the way I suspect that when the next Defence Spending review comes around the research budget will be sliced yet again to cover UOR type costs for current Ops (understandable).

We will mature a product to lets say..TRL7 then all funding will be cut (because it is out of the research domain), then we hand over everything we know to the good ole US of A so that they can finish it off.

So, the USA get £X millions of paid for research to make something they can then sell back to us, albeit in a slightly downgraded version that we need to have supported through a lengthy and expensive contract.

Just a thought.
 
#9
But advances in defending against these weapons are working. The ratio of wounded to killed in Iraq is 9 to 1, Meigs said. In Vietnam, that ratio was 2 to 1, and in Korea it was 2.5 to 1.
Surely this is more down the advances in medical tech, and better BFCD?
 
#10
I remember most if not all the bleep side of EOD work was UK EYES ALPHA. Guess we're sharing with the yanks now...
 
#12
dingerr said:
The article only really indicates that something is actually being done about the threat. It does not provide any awe inspiring advancements

Not really anything new to the British, who lead the field on this subject.
Yes, we Brits probably did learn lots that the US organisation set up to respond to IEDs can benefit from. A good proportion of that learning was held by the Ammunition Technical profession in the RAOC and then on the RLC. Much of that focused experience in terms of developing policies, equipment and training to respond to IED threats was held in "DLSA" and now "PATO". Apart from looking after the British Army's ammunition they also directed key aspects of the counter IED development and provided the professional lead to ATOs and ATs. I always thought it quite important and especially since we are again involved in conflicts where IEDs are the main cause of casualties. Also a 1* and latterly at least a full Colonel head of profession was a useful leadership focus for the technical aspects of a specialised skill set within the RLC. Many in the Army won't have experienced some aspects of what the ATOs did, but a good proprtion will have sat on a cordon in Basrah or Belfast whilst ATO did the sharp end stuff.

But guess what....it would appear that last week this organisation (now PATO) was effectively dismantled. Chopped up, dis-assembled and put to sleep. Hmmm. It must make sense to someone. But of course, I'm sure they were fully consulted. They would be wouldn't they? !
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#14
floppyjocky said:
So, the USA get £X millions of paid for research to make something they can then sell back to us, albeit in a slightly downgraded version that we need to have supported through a lengthy and expensive contract.

Just a thought.
The word Quenetiq ring any bells?
 
#15
TheIronDuke said:
floppyjocky said:
So, the USA get £X millions of paid for research to make something they can then sell back to us, albeit in a slightly downgraded version that we need to have supported through a lengthy and expensive contract.

Just a thought.
The word Quenetiq ring any bells?
QinetiQ even. I couldn't possibly comment.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
DonJohn said:
Rather proves how far sighted our American cousins were to have funded the period unpleasantness in Northern Ireland.
you b!tch! Handbags at ten paces, go!

Another thing the US would be well to take on board would be hearts and minds. Ask questions first, lots of them whilst smiling and dishing out food and medicine, then shoot.
 
#17
The fact is that the American military EOD and the UK's EOD units, have had a close relationship since WW II, when the UK's EOD units helped with the formation of our EOD units. This close relationship continues between the two continues to this day.

http://www.hardeodcafe.com/united_states_explosive_ordnance.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb_disposal

As for comments on NI, the Ameican Government had no reason to officially support or not support the UK's actions in NI. Your actions in NI were an internal affair of the UK. The American EOD community; however, was in full support of the UK's EOD operators in NI and elsewhere.

In the case of the EOD community, during your actions in NI, we always had a good relationship with both your police and military EOD operators at a lot of different levels. Information on IEDs in NI and other data, to include fusing, etc. were exchanged as well as the currant techniques of the IRA, PIRA in both NI and London.

As a charter member, of the International Association of Bomb Technicans and Investigators, (IABTI) since 3/73 and a police bomb technician, I was able to see this exchange of information, first hand at our annual training conferance each year. There was always both EOD operators from the UK, both police and military, some fresh from NI. I have met many EOD people from the UK, both military, police and forensic experts and formed many friendships with them, to include England, Canada, Australia and other UK countries.

http://www.iabti.org/

I have never seen any hostility, such as some express here, within the EOD community's operators. Politics, Nationalities and egos, etc., just don't seem to matter much with those who have to do the work.
 
#18
I would be interested to know what technological information is being passed across. It was only in the last few years that the RAF and RN have been included in ECM lessons on courses. So I would be surprised if ECM info is being passed across to other nationalities.
 
#19
dingerr said:
I would be interested to know what technological information is being passed across. It was only in the last few years that the RAF and RN have been included in ECM lessons on courses. So I would be surprised if ECM info is being passed across to other nationalities.
As I said the ECM stuff was UK EYES ALPHA - Brit nationals only - and unless it specifically relates to IEDs in Iraq/Afg then I doubt they will be getting any of it. Some septics have sympathy for the IRA/nationalist cause, theres no point in handing over our defences on a plate.

From what I've gathered from the web/news the type of IED in use in Iraq is different from what we were used to dealing with in NI anyway.
 
#20
floppyjocky said:
TheIronDuke said:
floppyjocky said:
So, the USA get £X millions of paid for research to make something they can then sell back to us, albeit in a slightly downgraded version that we need to have supported through a lengthy and expensive contract.

Just a thought.
The word Quenetiq ring any bells?
QinetiQ even. I couldn't possibly comment.
or perhaps QuinUseless?

I can remember when DLSA was a 2* appointment...

When are people going to wake up and realise the danger of losing in-house expertise? And that logistics is a bit more than moving "stuff" about on the backs of trucks.

(Sorry I should know this..

a. When there is a serious f*ck up leading to massive loss of life (and this is never going to happen with ammuniton - yeah right - See "Nigerian Ammo Dump"!)

b. When somebody finally works out who has made all the money from dismantling the UK arms industry.. Sir JC perhaps?)

Bah - Humbug
 

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