ORDERING SOLDIERS TO ATTEND TRAINING AND EXTERNAL EVENTS

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by fuelgit, Oct 15, 2008.

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  1. Apologies for this post, I'm sure it has been covered before but I can't locate it.

    Our Regular CO is really pissed (quite rightly) with poor projected attendance on some important events this month and next.

    My dilemma and I need to get my facts straight on this!

    The TA soldier is a volunteer and can still choose (even with cajoling/persuading/mentoring/guidance what 'he' wants to attend. A crafty TA soldier is a master at meeting the criteria for Bounty qualification that the CO sets out.

    The EU classify us as casual workers i.e 'fruit pickers' as 'we' the TA can choose the time and place of work. Ordering/ forcing attendance of course categorizes us as part time employees with rights to paid holiday and pension etc.

    The CoC I believe is wary of instances of this ‘’’You will turn up’’’.

    All in all not very retention positive.
     
  2. Either man up, and do as your told or...you know where the exit is.
    You want to be treated like a soldier? then act like one you pussy!!
     
  3. Cretin, BM.

    If you ain't getting paid, you ain't subject to Mil disciplime and so CANNOT be ordered to do anything ( officers may differ, IIRC. )

    If he tries to impose anything he will a) nuke morale and b) be largely ignored. He needs to accomodate TA soldeirs, not the other way round.
     
  4. msr

    msr LE


    BM,

    Your posts in this and other forums are neither helpful, informed or welcome.

    msr
     
  5. Thanks Blobbly for your constructive comments....

    I am with my CO on this...What I need is clarification on employment status and the 'right/ability' to order them...

    This I'm, sure is an old debate...

    Blobby.... Now right turn.... dismiss and s*d off!!
     
  6. msr

    msr LE

    FG,

    The answer is no: you cannot be forced to attend as there is no functionality within TA Regulations which provides for this.

    Mandatory weekends (aka Gold Weekends, Starred Weekends, CO's Weekends, Red Weekends) cannot be enforced.

    It is up to the CoC to 'sell' the weekend. Here is a helpful Warning Order: http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=42210/highlight=love.html

    msr
     
  7. Has nobody considered a grown-up solution?

    You don't oblige anybody to attend anything, they pick and choose which weekends to attend in order to fulfill their bounty requirements.

    But you also put on some fun weekends or social events, the stuff that everybody wants to attend - but make it known that these weekends/events are rewards for those who have attended the ball-ache weekends. You must ensure that ONLY those who have qualified get to attend - letting somebody in who hasn't done the requisite training will cause upset and throw morale (and the likelihood of increased attendance) out of the window.

    You don't have to shout at people to get them to do what you want (unless you're infantry). ;)
     
  8. From a strictly legal standpoint the TA are "casual labour" and cannot be compelled to attend any form of training. Any CO who thinks otherwise and puts it in writing is opening themselves up to a severe kicking from higher echelons. The financial costs of the TA passing the test to be part-time would be huge and the CoC make sure that no evidence supporting such a move - such as compulsory attendance - is generated. Of course the Army is under no compulsion to keep anyone on if they don't turn out as requested.

    However, this then means that the CO fumes as he perceives his troops to be idle so and sos but discharging them as a result is a touch OTT, the troops fume as they can't do every weekend and who is this bloke to slag them off for not turning up when they've already done so many days. Camp, Efficiency Cert etc.

    The real problem is that what the CO deems important could very well be seen as boring self-indulgent ego-massaging crap by the troops. The ever present TA-Reg divide opens up and things degenerate as the old arguments are trotted out. Leadership is the key to solving this, not throwing abuse around.

    Alternatively if you're - like me- from a certain London-based MI Coy then someone needs to politely point out that changing the dates at short notice isn't a good idea if you want people to turn up en masse. Even the TA need to plan ahead.
     
  9. msr, what are on about "neither helpful, informative or welcome in other forums"...come down off your MOD chair.

    I get fed up with TA post crying about the nasty men in camouflage telling them what to do or where to be!

    You have signed an 'oath to the crown' the same as I have, and to be deployable you need the training that goes with it. You never stop learning in the military (going by your wise comments) you should know that.

    Eventually there will be a shake up in the reserve forces, hopefully cutting the 'dros' that whinge about giving something back.

    Remember, we are all volunteers, we all have the same choice. Give 100% or whats the point?
     
  10. To add to the above, there are soldiers who's ONLY form of income is Regular Army pay. We don't have the option of getting money from else where, you should know that there are soldiers who haven't been paid correctly since JPA, they are still ssrving in the hotspots around the world, willing to sacrifice all for what?...shite money!
     
  11. msr

    msr LE

    Remember that the TA have the following set of priorities:

    Family -> Work -> TA.

    So no surprises which one gets binned first (hint: not the one which pays the bills and mortgage).

    msr
     
  12. Thanks MSR.

    'Sales' Posters have always been good at 'pulling the crowds'. This is support to an event so more like a duty and dare I say it stagging on directing traffic at worse case (annual event) so not that interesting so a difficult sell.

    I know and agree that we have to take the good bad and indifferent W/E's in our stride. But theTA soldiers obviously go for the good ones...

    I suppose I could always just 'insist'

    Please read your PM

    FG
     
  13. I wouldn't expect any different msr, family comes first in my life as we all expect.
     
  14. So?

    Army rates of pay aren't secret. Who'd be stupid enough to take a permanent job where the pay is less than they're worth?

    Ah!
     
  15. A very helpful post MSR. Reinforce the idea of the TA bounty-hunter, damaging those who do their bit and more. Your equation is simplistic to the extreme and arguably derogatory to regular counterparts.

    Am I mistaken that army discipline applies on or off duty to the TA or will do once the new armed forces act is implemented? AGAI certainly does already. I know it's slightly off topic but responds to an above post.