Orde hopes to end baton gun use

#1
Full Story Here

Orde hopes to end baton gun use Police officer with plastic bullet weapon
Sir Hugh stopped short of calling for a ban Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde has said he does not want his officers to have to use plastic bullets again.

Sir Hugh also acknowledged that some of the 14 people killed by plastic bullets during the Troubles were innocent.

Sir Hugh Orde's remarks come as Sinn Fein considers whether or not to proceed with a special ard fheis which could see it signed up policing.

In a wide-ranging interview, Sir Hugh stopped short of calling for a ban on plastic bullets.

He did not promise never to use the the modern version of the weapon.
My bold another expensive inquiry on its way!!!
 
#4
Yes you are right another bloody sunday inquiry. remember in the sixties they used to deploy the line in the sand in arabic because nobody had others to use. If you can not deploy potentially non lethal response then live rounds are the only option. It must be replaced with a viable alternative. CS, stingers or noise. To say that we will not plastic bullets in Public order situations, with no other option would mean dead bodies through the use of live rounds, its pointless. We do not want to kill, it is not in our nature, most pacifists are either military or ex. The battle of Cuan Place Belfast to the uninitiated, resulted in the PO line being charged with approx 200 Green, when they passed our lines they said we are not after you but those bastar*ds behind you. If you can't use Plastic bullets give us something else FFS. We stand the line between madness and reason, we DIE. I am sick to death with politicians telling us what we are doing wrong, THEY put us there THEY tell us how the job is to be done, and then complain when we don't give the desired result. Listen to us we KNOW what we are taking about. Been there done that worn the tee-shirt. LISTEN! learn.

As always to those out there, boy or girl THANK YOU! You are a credit to your family and Country.
 
#5
Good Man Dutch Paddy. Can you tell me how much was spent on the Warrenpoint Massacre inquiry or the Mortar attack on Newry RUC Barracks in Newry please.
 
#6
There are new toys knocking about now. I tried a zap from a taser, only half of the 5 second ride. By God I squealed. Also sting balls, noise, flammenwerfer...
 
#7
Minxy said:
Full Story Here

Orde hopes to end baton gun use Police officer with plastic bullet weapon
Sir Hugh stopped short of calling for a ban Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde has said he does not want his officers to have to use plastic bullets again.

Sir Hugh also acknowledged that some of the 14 people killed by plastic bullets during the Troubles were innocent.

Sir Hugh Orde's remarks come as Sinn Fein considers whether or not to proceed with a special ard fheis which could see it signed up policing.

In a wide-ranging interview, Sir Hugh stopped short of calling for a ban on plastic bullets.

He did not promise never to use the the modern version of the weapon.
My bold another expensive inquiry on its way!!!

If they were innocent, what the fcuk were they doing in the middle of a riot!!.This is utter bollocks. The man has obviously never actuall been in a riot - mind you in the mid-70's we did give one lot up the top of St James St a couple of 75 grain Search Team rounds - veeeerrrrrry interesting!

IWS batteries were a bit OTT though.
 
#9
The latest version of the baton round, the AEP (or Attenuated Energy Projectile) is a lot safer, though why we have to worry about rioters safety is beyond me, than the old solid round. It has a squash head which uses up a lot of the energy on impact. Whilst not 100% safe the risk of a serious injury or fatility is considerably lower.

In fact it's a lot safer than the other tactical option of a baton charge which has a high likelyhood of serious injuries to both rioters, and more importantly, the security forces who have to close the gap and get within baton range.
 
#10
I suspect that this is yet another political cuddly move to appease Adams and his girls in the modern setting of 'New NI'!

Maybe the forces could use some strong language and hand signals to break up a riot?? NO.........go for live and put some hair on the wall :lol:


fastmedic
 
#11
gennithmedic said:
There are new toys knocking about now. I tried a zap from a taser, only half of the 5 second ride. By God I squealed. Also sting balls, noise, flammenwerfer...
Now that should shift the crowd :D
 
#12
How about some "community engagement utilising community partners in a holistic method to achieve understanding of the needs of minority communities"

Now that'll bore the crowds into submission.

There, some good old mainland police speak, not only will it confuse everyone as it's meaningless blurb, but it uses all the governments favorite buzzwords.
 
#13
There were more interesting alterantives though. The AEP is simply a development of the "Bean Bag" round which fired a frangible bag full of rubber balls. Unfortunately this transferred all of the KE to the target with unfortunate results - to the target.

Various gases were trialled including ones which made you involuntarily vomit, defecate and urinate!! That'd make the back of the Paddy Wagon user friendly.

The reason they got rid of Rubber Bullets was that the bullet could be removed (as could the charge) resulting in T Atkins havinga modular charge capability for those longer range problems. It also gave him alternative ammunition nature ability e.g torch batteries etc.

All this is pure hearsay of course!
 
#14
Live rounds are the way ahead.

You have to break eggs to make an omellete.
 
#15
The worrying thing about pronouncments such as this is that the Beancounters will use it an excuse to do nothing. There may alternatives such as tasers etc, but unless they are quickly available and usable they are worthless.

If you are going to put armed troops in front of a riot, you MUST have some way of keeping the crowd from snatching an armed man. If this happens YOU MUST use lethal force to recover the weapon. Baton rounds are the simplest and most reliable means of doing this, short of deploying huge numbers with shields (which is what the police do).

A donk gun and a slack handful of baton rounds may be more risky in absolute terms, but represents a sensible backup for a patrol in cases where a riot is not expected. The consequence of not being able to respond in a graduated way are likely to be worse.

Yet another example of politicians (e.g Orde) prostituting a useful bit of kit for short term gain..
 
#16
It does matter how many plod or squaddies get hurt/killed as long as the Govt. can't get sued by a violent rioting thug for breaching his human right smash windows and set fire to cars, but hurting him a little and arresting him.

It makes sense.

The use of newer gasses is a bit of a gray area isn't it? Arn't some of the nastier ones (like the ones that cause muscle spasems) banned under the laws about chemical warfare?
 
#17
bobath said:
It does matter how many plod or squaddies get hurt/killed as long as the Govt. can't get sued by a violent rioting thug for breaching his human right smash windows and set fire to cars, but hurting him a little and arresting him.

It makes sense.

The use of newer gasses is a bit of a gray area isn't it? Arn't some of the nastier ones (like the ones that cause muscle spasems) banned under the laws about chemical warfare?
The trouble with using chemicals as Riot Control agents is that they do go everywhere - especially where they shouldn't - because they can. TASERS sound OK at first but if T Atkins was going to riot and he knew Red Forces had TASERS he would don thick clothing, put on a crash helmet and carry a dustbin lid. Even projected TASER lines would have a problem there. Oh and he'd throw bricks at you!!!

There needs to be a stand-off attack system.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#18
...and how long before more widespread use of Tasers starts to rack up heart attack fatalities, or blinding, or claims of brain damage etc etc :roll:
 
#19
Oh and accidentally go off in the back of the Paddy Wagon, unintenionally giving an arrestee an unusual sexual experience!!!
 
#20
It's my understanding that the fatalities occurred when the old solid plastic, HP4 style, round was used. Now the rounds are softer and the ballistics improved just how many fatalities/serious injuries have been caused? I assume enough dill's have gone down the range to make comparison?
Here's another way to stop the trouble. Stop throwing taxpayers money at the little dears everytime they wreck their home.
 
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