OPSEC WTF? Last Corps journal on Ebay!

#3
dextrose said:
no but i do think the price is too high
The price of OPSEC is never too high when the lives on your comrades and families are at stake.

I have dropped the seller a line asking him to consider his options
 
#4
I think it needs more than that; given that any walt/terrorist/HIS member could purchase it, someone should arrange for the local civpol to go round to the guy's house and confiscate it. Sadly, that's not possible in this day and age, especially when you consider that all Corps and Regimental journals are freely available to the general public through other perfectly legitimate means.
 
#5
do not underestimate the power of.......

arrse. Seller has just mailed me to say that he has taken item off.

excellenet display of sound judgement Sir !!
 
#6
He mailed me too after I pointed out it wasn't a good idea to sell it. Pretty good of him to take it off (though not surprising if we all contacted him!!).
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#7
It does raise the question of whether it should be published as an UNCLAS document at all. In reality, there's a lot more in the Rose and Laurel than we would allow in this forum.
 
#8
Totally agree with you, CPunk, and sadly it's just the tip of the iceberg.
Remember a couple of years ago when they started publishing the results of all the promotion boards on the Army internet site? It included all Int Corps and R Irish, as well as other sensitive trades.
I was the guy who got it removed.
Eventually.
My first attempts at doing it via the chain of command were pretty dismal to be honest; I was met with the response from the very top of "Mind your own business, it's our data and we'll do what we want with it".
In the end, I had to write to the Information Commissioner as a private citizen, and get him to force the idiots to remove it as it breached the Data Protection Act. (I haven't been promoted since, but I think I'd reached my ceiling anyway)
It could definitely be argued that these journals breach the DPA in exactly the same way. They are held in electronic form, and the data owner has a duty to protect it under several articles of the act, especially when there is a clear threat to the security of any individuals listed. Releasing them into the public domain (which happens, but I won't say exactly how in this forum) does not make the data protected.
Would any of the legal chappies like to comment on the feasibility of this?
 
#9
cpunk said:
It does raise the question of whether it should be published as an UNCLAS document at all. In reality, there's a lot more in the Rose and Laurel than we would allow in this forum.
The Rose and Laurel, an excellent journal although haven't seen it for some time. Difficult problem this. A journal that was total Comsec would be unbelievably boring and fail to meet its primary purpose. I don't see why it can't be given a low security rating like "Restricted".
 
#10
I'm not saying it has to be given a security classification, Birdie. After all, how would we distribute it to the ex Corps members then? A simple message on the inside cover would suffice. That, and tightening up the circulation to prevent others from releasing it into the public domain.
 
#11
How about serial numbering each copy of the journal. That way, if they do ever end up where they shouldn't, the mis-guided fool who sold/lost it can be traced and 'educated'. This would prevent the need to protectively mark it but would make people think twice about giving it a wider distribution. What we have to remember, the actual content does not warrant a PM. However, its a question of persec. There are people in our Corps with unique'ish' names who would not be too hard to track down.

Perhaps ICA should be approached with this idea.

As an aside, does anyone know if the Regt have a journal? If so, how do they protect the distribution of it?
 
#12
eye_spy said:
As an aside, does anyone know if the Regt have a journal? If so, how do they protect the distribution of it?
They have quite a few, usually found in WH Smiths' etc.
 
#14
cpunk said:
CrapSpy said:
eye_spy said:
As an aside, does anyone know if the Regt have a journal? If so, how do they protect the distribution of it?
They have quite a few, usually found in WH Smiths' etc.
Exactly: Combat and Survival, Cheesewire Garotte Monthly etc etc :D
I was thinking more of the books, or are they Regimental Annuals?:lol:
 
#15
Slightly_Nasty said:
It could definitely be argued that these journals breach the DPA in exactly the same way. They are held in electronic form, and the data owner has a duty to protect it under several articles of the act, especially when there is a clear threat to the security of any individuals listed. Releasing them into the public domain (which happens, but I won't say exactly how in this forum) does not make the data protected.
In fact, it does not need to be in electronic format to be covered by the DPA now.

All Officer promotion, retirements etc are published and are freely available at the London Gazette. The RN publishes virtually everything you want to know about RN and RM Officers (full name, rank, seniority, appointment plus a bunch of other info in the Navy List. this is publicly available online at the RN Community Website. The RN Bridge Card, which lists all COs of ships and establishments was also released under FOI and can be found on the MoD site here.

To be frank, there's so much info already out there I don't think a few Corps journals are muich of a threat.
 
#16
Lest we forget

In 1984 Peter Jordan, a retired schoolmater from Bristol was arrested outside a pub in Liverpool. Inside he had been seen in the company of an armed INLA ASU who had just arrived off the ferry from Eire. The case went to court and Jordan recieved a 14 year custodial sentance, this and most of what I recount is in the public domain.

The story of the night of the arrest is an epic tradecraft lesson in it's own right. SUBJECT had broken out through the inner cordon undetected, and but for the actions of a sole officer would have escaped.

A subsequent 3 month document-exploitation operation revealed that SUBJECT had corrcetly identified the names, home addresses and telephone numbers of hundereds of members of the Forces, Intelligence Services and the Judiciary. This included over 80 members of SF.

SUBJECT's key sources of information were Regimental Journals, newspapers, especially Court & Social, Soldier Magazine, Telephone Directories / 192 and the electoral rolls Some years after hisconviction, it became apparent that the initial damage assessment had been based on outdated PAMPAS printouts.

A sample taken, involving Corps and Regimental secretaries and other wise owls, such as RSMs and QMs indicated that there had been numerous other partial hits. Mr + Mrs Sonic, for instance, found their new house was on his list.

This is not the first, and will not be the last time we are bitten by this exploit. when the Argentine arrived in Port Stanley, he had in his back pocket, the Name, Rank, Number and Home address of every member of NP8901.... just how do they do that Des?? Well I think dark blue loggie has part of the answer. The excellent reference library in Portsmouth is another useful POI for Naval / RM Research.

If some of these items had been included as teaching points on the eBay seller's A3 course, perhaps we might not be going round this Bouy yet again. :roll:

PM me if you want to know the Op name. Who knows; the case file might have escaped the great Arnhem Block weeding campaign of 1994!!

[rant] [/rant]
 
#17
eye_spy said:
How about serial numbering each copy of the journal. That way, if they do ever end up where they shouldn't, the mis-guided fool who sold/lost it can be traced and 'educated'. This would prevent the need to protectively mark it but would make people think twice about giving it a wider distribution. What we have to remember, the actual content does not warrant a PM. However, its a question of persec. There are people in our Corps with unique'ish' names who would not be too hard to track down.

Perhaps ICA should be approached with this idea.
Good idea but almost any mark easily added (a sticker/barcode/RF ID) can be easily removed... The only thing you could do is print a unique watermark on every page... the type you sometimes see an good quality letter writing paper... very expensive i'd imagine...

Tricam.
 
#18
Subsonic makes a good point that in the wrong hands this information can become very dangerous, it also illustrates, however, that someone determined enough can find out anything anyway!

I feel it would be terribly sad if even one deserving ex-member went without a copy of the Journal as a result of tightened security measures.

Someone should create a 5 x 5 x 5 informing the foreign office that this selfish Walt is intending to heckle at the next Labour conference, that would sort him out!

In my jaundiced opinion I reckon he should be outed!!!
 
#19
Judging by the publication frequency of the said esteemed tome, It is likely to be out of date. However I agree that putting it up for auction on Ebay was, as they say in Gateshead, f-rigging stupid!
 

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