Opputunities to specialise in the Rifles?

[callum13]

Hey all, first post , Im in the Process of joining the Rifles ( well just applied really! ) and i am wondering could i choose to be put into the 1st Battalion commando one if i wanted or do i just get slotted where their is an empty space , also i am wondering could i specialise in mountain leader or survival instructor in the rifles?

Cheers guys

also if i sound waltish/serious etc just give me a good slagging not good on these forums

better ?

 

[scarletto]

Very poor wah indeed, i wouldnt bother.

 

[smudge67]

WAaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

 

[smudge67]

You could ask to specialise as a Track Pad within Armd Inf. Althought you must be willing to travel, and be able to work under pressure

 

[DavetheApe]

Hey all, first post , Im in the Process of joining the Rifles ( well just applied really! ) and i am wondering could i choose to be put into the 1st Battalion commando one if i wanted or do i just get slotted where their is an empty space , also i am wondering could i specialise in mountain leader or survival instructor in the rifles?

Quite probably.

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

1st Bn are currently taking over the DS slots at CTC, so there should be plenty of opportunities to fill in.

 

[smudge67]

To the hole surely?????

 

[hairyhandbag]

1st Bn are currently taking over the DS slots at CTC, so there should be plenty of opportunities to fill in.

OK,Where? This should be interesting...........

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

AIUI its to raise the profile of the Rifles within the Marine world quicker than by relying on 1st Bn completing the Commando course.

I recalll that the Booties where going to deny any sharp-end role to Rifles, assuming that they would not be of the calibre required.
Somebody has decided that this approach - assimilation? - will be a quicker way to get a proper working relationship.

 

[hairyhandbag]

I am not familiar with AIV/U(?) but i am very very very familiar with RM training methodology.

PS. This is not a bite at you I am just curious.

HH

 

[timex]

1st Bn are currently taking over the DS slots at CTC, so there should be plenty of opportunities to fill in.

What, are you saying that the Rifles are taking over from the Training teams at CTC?

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

I am not familiar with AIV/U(?)

= As I Understand It.

I gather that the slots will be filled "bottom up"; Junior Command Course ( ? ) first, and as those guys gain experiance of the Marine training needs / methodology they'll then be taking Senior Command Course slots. That way, the Rifles guys will be training Marine and Army NCOs and being seen to be part of the teeth side of the Commando world. I think the basic Recruit training will remain as is. Army guys will be slotting in when somebody withdraws from CTC due to eg. end of tour.

It actually makes sense to me.

Not sure what happening about the Officer side, though; anyone care to comment?

 

[timex]

I am not familiar with AIV/U(?)

= As I Understand It.

I gather that the slots will be filled "bottom up"; Junior Command Course ( ? ) first, and as those guys gain experiance of the Marine training needs / methodology they'll then be taking Senior Command Course slots. That way, the Rifles guys will be training Marine and Army NCOs and being seen to be part of the teeth side of the Commando world. I think the basic Recruit training will remain as is. Army guys will be slotting in when somebody withdraws from CTC due to eg. end of tour.

It actually makes sense to me.


Not sure what happening about the Officer side, though; anyone care to comment?

BB, how can you put guys onto a training team if they've not done the course themselves?

Does that mean that the RM NCO's will no longer get breaks from Ops, one of the great points of RM training is that the guys teaching you have gone through all the hoops themselves first.

Also remember that part of the JCC and SCC involves Cdo tests (again), so will the Rifles guys do the Commando course and get the Green Beret first? They will need to do this at least to set a benchmark, you cannot teach something you have never experienced.

Are you also going to start running the All Arms course?


Where are you going to get all these NCO's from, will the Rifles stop being Operational?

Finally.... unless you do the All Arms at least how can the guys from the Rifles expect to intergrate with the RM, remember this isn't the Small Arms School, screaming and shouting will probably leave them severly embarrassed as instructors.

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative but having been a "Bootie" for 30 yrs it all sounds a bit half arsed.

As to the YO side of life again, your trainers will have to be up to the Standard (Physically ands mentally) to keep up with the various tests.


I have a funny feeling this could be a bit of a bite.............I really hope it is.


Shaun

 

[timex]

AIUI its to raise the profile of the Rifles within the Marine world quicker than by relying on 1st Bn completing the Commando course.

I recalll that the Booties where going to deny any sharp-end role to Rifles, assuming that they would not be of the calibre required.
Somebody has decided that this approach - assimilation? - will be a quicker way to get a proper working relationship.

BB, sorry but this is not the case. Rifles will become the 4th manouvre Unit for 3 Cdo Bde, they will not be involved at all in any training roles and will be attached for as long as needed. Wether or not you do the Cdo course is up to your bosses, as for a whole Batt.......with a 50-60% failure rate for recruits not a hope! The Corps would also have to shut CTC for a least 6 months to get you all through, and we couldn't afford to stop our own training.

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

Timex

There are already some Rifles blokes who wear daggers.

I'd assume that the JNCOs amongst these blokes will be first in line for the Army Handover slots; like I said, it'll be the Junior course first.

BB

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

[
Finally.... unless you do the All Arms at least how can the guys from the Rifles expect to intergrate with the RM, remember this isn't the Small Arms School, screaming and shouting will probably leave them severly embarrassed as instructors.

screaming and shouting s not the way we do it.. no worry there - "everything that is necessary and nothing thats not". As above, there are a fair few 1st Rifles blokes with daggers.

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative but having been a "Bootie" for 30 yrs it all sounds a bit half arsed.


Shaun

No worries. FWIW, I actually have a great respect for RM.

 

[In_my_day]

I am not familiar with AIV/U(?)

= As I Understand It.

I gather that the slots will be filled "bottom up"; Junior Command Course ( ? ) first, and as those guys gain experiance of the Marine training needs / methodology they'll then be taking Senior Command Course slots. That way, the Rifles guys will be training Marine and Army NCOs and being seen to be part of the teeth side of the Commando world. I think the basic Recruit training will remain as is. Army guys will be slotting in when somebody withdraws from CTC due to eg. end of tour.

It actually makes sense to me.

Not sure what happening about the Officer side, though; anyone care to comment?

I assume that what you actually mean is that the RIFLES will replace the PARA Sgt exchange billet on the JCC and eventually the Inf CSgt post on the SCC (?), rather than they will "take up the [18ish SNCO, WO, Offr] DS posts [on these 2 courses]". I am intrigued at the suggestion that removing this number of non-Operational job opportunities (shore time in RN parlance, and an integral part of 2SL PFS) should be seen as a good way to integrate the 2 Services! It would also be interesting to see how it would effect very tight RM manning and promotion issues as every promotion is tied directly to a line number (and these would presumably cease to exist unless a comparable number of Inf posts were handed over to the RM). There are other issues; such as the Corps, CTC and the greater RN having proved the efficacy of the CTC model and managed to (for the moment) demonstrate a requirement for RM NCO trg to stand alone from a tri-service school suddenly handing over the trg to the Army, or the fact that the courses train techs as well as GD SQs; that are worthy of discussion (although many here may not be interested in them). I look forward to getting the gen from CTC.

BB

I recalll that the Booties where going to deny any sharp-end role to Rifles, assuming that they would not be of the calibre required.

This chestnut is often used but can anyone actually give a source from a bona fida APPOINTMENT rather than "a RM said"? My understanding is; and I posted this a long while ago; that the intention has always been the creation of a 4th manouevre unit and a square Bde. My opinion is that some RM and RIFLES pers will feel the need to "prove" the ability of the Bn and that a mutual respect will take time to foster but I sincerely hope it proves successful.

IMD

 

[Jimbleep]

BB, how can you put guys onto a training team if they've not done the course themselves?

Does that mean that the RM NCO's will no longer get breaks from Ops, one of the great points of RM training is that the guys teaching you have gone through all the hoops themselves first.

I have to agree. One of the things that got me through RM training was knowing that every instructor had done everything that I was doing, and that as hard as I found it, they probably had it harder.

Not taking anything away from the guys at the RIFLES with green lids but the AACC and RM training do differ, just with the same tests... And in that sense, the challenges faced by candidates on both courses are different.

It's hard to see how an NCO from the Rifles would fully nurture corps pride amongst recruits in a capbadge that he doesn't wear.

 

[GwaiLo]

I don't have any insight that anyone else doesn't but the Minister has made statements in relation to some of this stuff.

He has said:

1 Rifles will not undertake the Lead Commando Group role but will carry out the role of secondary assault wave manoeuvre unit in the same manner as other Commando Units.
There is no requirement for 1 Rifles personnel to attend a pre-course or to undertake the full all arms commando course in order to carry out their role as the fourth manoeuvre unit for 3 Commando Brigade. Individuals may in the course of their individual career development apply for and attend the all arms commando course.

So member of the battalion don't need to do the course in order to deliver the operational tasks the battalion will have. But if it is available for career development then I guess that it will be possible for appropriately qualifed Riflemen to fill slots within the brigade. I guess time will tell which slots they may be but, for example, I can see no reason why suitable blokes could not serve with the Bridage Recce Force. Nor do I see any reason why they could not instruct on the AACC, on which unit pride isn't relevant.

I think instructing on courses designed to train RM NCO's only is more of a problem unless we were tallking about some exchange type programme where booties get to fill slots on the corresponding School of Infantry courses. ie Rifles guy to SCC & RM guy to PSBC, Rifles guy to JCC & RM guy to SCBC.

That might also go some way to achieving something else th minister cited

In addition, the co-operation and co-ordination of effort between the Army and Navy will bring benefits in terms of resource and information sharing in the training and education of soldiers and single service tactics, techniques and procedures. Army understanding of operations in the littoral environment will also be broadened.

 

[christheclimber]

I have to agree. One of the things that got me through RM training was knowing that every instructor had done everything that I was doing, and that as hard as I found it, they probably had it harder.

Not taking anything away from the guys at the RIFLES with green lids but the AACC and RM training do differ, just with the same tests... And in that sense, the challenges faced by candidates on both courses are different.

It's hard to see how an NCO from the Rifles would fully nurture corps pride amongst recruits in a capbadge that he doesn't wear.

just a few thoughts.

firstly, if they have to pass the same tests to the same standard, surely the end product is fairly similar? unless your going to admit that the RM staff who run the AACC let in sub standard soldiers, if they pass, doesnt that mean they have demonstrated all the qualities that are needed?
a mate of mine who is ex intl corps did his AACC, and he said that you get beasted just as hard and have to go through the same feelings as RM recruits, simply because the instructors are keen to only have the best soldiers, not let in any fat bastard.

and while the AACC and RM basic differ, surely army basic + trade + AACC is probably fairly similar in terms of mental toughness?

and also, lots of army regiments in iraq and afganistan have been in just as bloody and dangerous battles as the RM, and have shown they are quality soldiers.

and not to offend anybody but surely it would be better for everybody if people didnt see it as "RM first, then AACC second" and saw that just because they joined the army not the navy there are still a hell of a lot of ******* good soldiers out there, and if they serve under 3 cdo, it gives the brigade more good soldiers, and gives the army and RM a chance to learn from each other and improve the quality of all recruits?
whats the point in trying to keep all the best soldiers in their own private clubs?

and regarding nuturing corps pride, surely RM staff can do that, what rifles staff can nuture is forces pride. surely thats just as important, seen as the RM need the army/RAF support in some situations.

if anybody saw that commando programme on ITV, the episode where they visited normandy, was i the only one who noticed that its was a lot like "lots of brave RM's here" when very few words were given to the others who died along side them. surely all the sappers blowing holes in the defences deserved an equal mention?