Opportunity to pick up potential officers?

#1
Is there an opportunity to pick up people of a suitable calibre from the current round of job cuts?

If so, how do we best reach out to them?

The money will not be the primary motivator, but the challenge may well be.

msr
 
#2
Quite possibly, and a good idea. So here's a starter for 10 - increased adverts amongst jobs sections in the papers.

(Do I win anything?)
 
#3
to sell what?

A long turgid course, AOSB at some point (not at the beginning), basic pay, and no recognition along the way....
 
#4
I'd imagine that in the City and other such places the challenge element of it, together with the sporting piece, would play well. In addition, if the potential to pick up an MA later in career or - even better - an MBA (whether it be in public service or not) would be a real winner, I fear, in attracting a number of the recently-redundant.

The question would, of course, be whether or not the advertisers are quick enough to be able to identify the opportunity, produce the ads and be seen to be working on it?
 
#7
Wingletang said:
to sell what?

A long turgid course, AOSB at some point (not at the beginning), basic pay, and no recognition along the way....
...I rather like my job!
 
#8
I should imagine the biggest source of people of suitable character will be from graduates who will see a military career as a valuable way of waiting out the recession and gaining valuable skills at the same time.
As another poster has said the services route may also appeal as an extended gap period before entering uni. Either way the Army should have a greater number of candidates from which to choose although, judging by Afghanistan and Iraq performances, the Army has already been extremely successful at attracting the right calibre of cadet.
 
#9
msr said:
Is there an opportunity to pick up people of a suitable calibre from the current round of job cuts?

If so, how do we best reach out to them?

The money will not be the primary motivator, but the challenge may well be.

msr
MSR

CRR is already all over it and the OAR banner is flying high...

However, just an observation, i think that the regular forces (not just Army & the Officer Corps) will fair better than the reserve forces.

The opportunity of a regular, stable and long term career with all the benefits that it brings is highly attractive at the min. Demographics aside, the reserves option may be slightly less attractive, ie. young thrusting graduates may not wish to give up their 'spare' time for a part time job that is essentially a means to an end?

It may be that many do the 'toe-in-the-water' thing via the TA, which is a good thing, prior to going regular. I know that ARTD is expecting a surge in second-quarter 09
 
#10
goon_bde said:
The opportunity of a regular, stable and long term career with all the benefits that it brings is highly attractive at the min. Demographics aside, the reserves option may be slightly less attractive, ie. young thrusting graduates may not wish to give up their 'spare' time for a part time job that is essentially a means to an end?
It could be that those that think long term might not fancy the idea of finding themselves in the their mid to late forties with an indexed linked pension and little or no chance of meaningful employment again.

There can be no sadder sight than an SO1 or 1* failing to cope with the move to the real world. (Which is why I declined the bursary/scholarship from the REME in preference for TA PARA BTW)
 
#11
You should probably try making potential officer information more accesible. I'm pretty motivated about a military career and I know how to use search engines, but I found it a challenge to get information on being a TA officer. Maybe if the information was more accesible, more people would actually be able to find out about it.
 
#12
GoodIdeaAtTheTime said:
goon_bde said:
The opportunity of a regular, stable and long term career with all the benefits that it brings is highly attractive at the min. Demographics aside, the reserves option may be slightly less attractive, ie. young thrusting graduates may not wish to give up their 'spare' time for a part time job that is essentially a means to an end?
It could be that those that think long term might not fancy the idea of finding themselves in the their mid to late forties with an indexed linked pension and little or no chance of meaningful employment again.

There can be no sadder sight than an SO1 or 1* failing to cope with the move to the real world. (Which is why I declined the bursary/scholarship from the REME in preference for TA PARA BTW)
In my experience the biggest barrier to gainful employment is the officer concerned's own expectations of his worth and what he can reasonably command. Most seek to find a job which pays the same or more than their military one. A far more reasonable expectation might be to seek employment at their pension level below their current level.
For example: (figures plucked from air) an officer currently earning £50,000 with a pension of £20,000 should be looking at a job which starts around £30,000. His overall standard of living is unaltered but he places himself as a saleable commodity given his relative inexperience in the non-military market. Having found employment at that level he will quickly find that his knowledge, experience and personal skills developed through his military career will advance him quite quickly through his new career.
Many might think this is selling oneself short, it is not. It is allowing an employer to take a gamble on the candidate without placing an undue financial burden upon himself. Be wary of many recruitment agencies, they will often try to bump your salary up to give themselves a better bonus (usually equal to the candidates starting salary).
 
#13
Standby for Broad Brush statement:

We've got enough dog shit officers who have little concept of the real world as it is. Surely we don't want ones that can't even hold down a job?

Is TA rupert training really enough in order to prep people to be decent officers without the civvy job experience, etc?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#14
StabTiffy2B said:
Standby for Broad Brush statement:

We've got enough dog shit officers who have little concept of the real world as it is. Surely we don't want ones that can't even hold down a job?

Is TA rupert training really enough in order to prep people to be decent officers without the civvy job experience, etc?
So some one needs to be an outstanding fund manager before they can become an Inf Pl Comd?

Or needs to have established themselves over a number of years in the Insurance sector before they are ready to become an RLC Troop Comd?

Training for TAPOs is considerably more stringent than that for LCpls. Perhaps we should ban all promotion from Pte until they can prove a full career in industry. After all, I have met proportionatly more shite TA LCpls than I have TA 2Lts.
 
#15
The_Duke said:
So some one needs to be an outstanding fund manager before they can become an Inf Pl Comd?

Or needs to have established themselves over a number of years in the Insurance sector before they are ready to become an RLC Troop Comd?

Training for TAPOs is considerably more stringent than that for LCpls. Perhaps we should ban all promotion from Pte until they can prove a full career in industry. After all, I have met proportionatly more shite TA LCpls than I have TA 2Lts.
I knew this was coming (hence my broad brush comment in italics :wink: ).

One of the huge benefits that the TA bod brings over the regular bod is the knowledge and experience that they bring from the outside world. Generally speaking the better JNCOs/SNCOs are those who hold a decent civvy job. Those with either no or shit jobs lack the leadership and management skills which make them effective. Surely this would be compounded in the Officer ranks?

By all means use the newly found un-employed to sweep the yard and make the brews but I think there'll be very few who are capable of leading by example if they can't even make it to the job centre.
 
#16
The_Duke said:
StabTiffy2B said:
Standby for Broad Brush statement:

We've got enough dog shit officers who have little concept of the real world as it is. Surely we don't want ones that can't even hold down a job?

Is TA rupert training really enough in order to prep people to be decent officers without the civvy job experience, etc?
So some one needs to be an outstanding fund manager before they can become an Inf Pl Comd?

Or needs to have established themselves over a number of years in the Insurance sector before they are ready to become an RLC Troop Comd?

Training for TAPOs is considerably more stringent than that for LCpls. Perhaps we should ban all promotion from Pte until they can prove a full career in industry. After all, I have met proportionatly more shite TA LCpls than I have TA 2Lts.
All people are promoted to the next level of incompetence, no matter how well prepared they are for promotion it is not until they actually do the job that they gain proficiency at that level. Once they become competent at that level they put themselves in the promotion zone to the next level of incompetence and so on. This is true of JNCOs and Officers.
Since JNCOs are promoted by officers then perhaps the reason that there are so many incompetent LCpls is that they have been promoted by incompetent officers?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#17
Clue for you ST2B -

The major financial institutions laying people off by the 10,000s do not generally employ from the lower echelons. They tend to use strict recruitment procedures, graduate trainee programmes etc, etc, etc.

Of course, those that fail the stringent selection procedures go to the safe, unchallenging world of the Civil Service. There they can hide their mediocrity amongst thousands of like souls.

These broad brushes are great, aren't they?
 
#18
The_Duke said:
StabTiffy2B said:
Standby for Broad Brush statement:

We've got enough dog shit officers who have little concept of the real world as it is. Surely we don't want ones that can't even hold down a job?

Is TA rupert training really enough in order to prep people to be decent officers without the civvy job experience, etc?
So some one needs to be an outstanding fund manager before they can become an Inf Pl Comd?

Or needs to have established themselves over a number of years in the Insurance sector before they are ready to become an RLC Troop Comd?

Training for TAPOs is considerably more stringent than that for LCpls. Perhaps we should ban all promotion from Pte until they can prove a full career in industry. After all, I have met proportionatly more shite TA LCpls than I have TA 2Lts.
Yes I have met quite a few dog shit officers too, but generally speaking these arn't the ones straight from Sandhurst. They are the ones who have been in the TA afew years. Not just with little or no op tour experiance but with no intention of gaining any who think they fucking know it all and won't listen to their fellow officers or SNCO's opinions.
In my experiance the ones straight from the factory have joined a different TA, have had some quite robust training (more so than a Private soldier doing CMSR), and are keen as mustard. The key is to keep them keen and keep them interested in the blokes. A couple of good officers interested in the blokes helps retention no end
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#19
Markintime said:
The_Duke said:
StabTiffy2B said:
Standby for Broad Brush statement:

We've got enough dog shit officers who have little concept of the real world as it is. Surely we don't want ones that can't even hold down a job?

Is TA rupert training really enough in order to prep people to be decent officers without the civvy job experience, etc?
So some one needs to be an outstanding fund manager before they can become an Inf Pl Comd?

Or needs to have established themselves over a number of years in the Insurance sector before they are ready to become an RLC Troop Comd?

Training for TAPOs is considerably more stringent than that for LCpls. Perhaps we should ban all promotion from Pte until they can prove a full career in industry. After all, I have met proportionatly more shite TA LCpls than I have TA 2Lts.
All people are promoted to the next level of incompetence, no matter how well prepared they are for promotion it is not until they actually do the job that they gain proficiency at that level. Once they become competent at that level they put themselves in the promotion zone to the next level of incompetence and so on. This is true of JNCOs and Officers.
Since JNCOs are promoted by officers then perhaps the reason that there are so many incompetent LCpls is that they have been promoted by incompetent officers?
Possibly. More likely, it is that it is relatively easy to pass the average PJNCO course. Turn up, attend for the whole 2 weeks, try not to make a total dog's arrse of it and get a pass. Due to a shortage of JNCOs the tape comes up in the post.
 
#20
Are you trying to tell me you've been laid off and want a job? I need a clerk to make my brews. Do you look good in a skirt and would you be any good at blowing me under my desk?

I would suggest that a high flying city type would want a bit more of a challenge than knocking round a TAC for a couple of days a week. If they didn't then I'd be very concerned.

Plus they'd have bigger chips on their shoulders than me :D
 

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