OPMI (L)s drawing a short straw.

Discussion in 'Int Corps' started by Pixie_Thunder, Oct 6, 2006.

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  1. As one of these unfortunate people to have an aptitude for languages, I feel the (L)'s are unfairly treated by the Int corps, even in this age of Single trade...Do they not wonder why so many OPMI (L)'s sign off...surely it would be better to keep their talent within the Corps rather than make them that unhappy that they feel the only solution is to sign off or transfer? Allow them to go away and try other things within the Corps instead of keeping them in the Darkside, if they choose not to go back, then surely that is an individual choice....Surely a Happy Opinter would be better than unhappy Linguists? I know the corps needs linguists, but surely not at the expense of experienced soldiers signing off just to stay away from a trade in which the benefits for studying on a long language are not that great anymore.
  2. :? There's a fair bit of generalism going on here. Could you qualify the unfair treatment, the number of OPMI(L)'s that have left, are leaving.

    You do realise that there is no such thing as a 'Happy Opinter'? :wink:
  3. Come on Pervychick do your thing. Tell this poor misguided (L) that everyhting is rosey on the Darkside..

  4. Got a couple of mates that are signing/have signed off who are lings, and some that are just waiting the next couple of weeks out until they reach the minimum time served - bad isn't it!

    Main reasons are:

    "I hate the fact that jokers above me, not even having the same cap badge, are f&*king with my life and mis-managing me" - wonder where they are posted????????????

    Some people have now been told that even though they joined under the policy of getting your substitution pay, acting after 6months and then substantive at the 12month point will now not be promoted as that policy was binned in April in favour of the do 2yrs in an OPMI post and then think why would I now want to do a language when I know I will get sent to 14 and be treated like a 2nd class retard (not even a first class one).

    Others were told they could do other things and then when it came to the crunch got F%^ked off under the classic 'exingences' of service routine.

    Some know that although the OPMIs may get a posting to 14 it is unlikely that they will keep getting posted back there - oh and they can specialise in more than one discipline and won't be penalised. The lings know that they will bounce between here and Digby with the possibility of a posting to the doughnut if they're lucky.

    None of them (who have been on det yet) dislike their operational role and given the choice would rather be in a warzone than at 14 as if you're at 14 you drive a broom - who joins the Int Corps, or the wider Army, to do that - apart from siggies maybe who don't know what we're all moaning at!!!!
  5. Pixie Thunder,
    No system is ever perfect, and it will always be difficult to meet the needs of everyone, balanced with the needs of the service. All three forces are desperately short of linguists at the moment and whilst that shortfall remains, it will admittedly be difficult for OPMI(L)s to get jobs away from languages (I said difficult, not impossible). Large amounts of linguists signing off will only make the problem worse, and thus more difficult to do those jobs that aren't language based.
    In what way do you think that Ls are treated unfairly? Be more specific or did you just want to have a general moan?
  6. Steb,

    I strongly recommend you ask for an interview with the INT CORPS RCMO - this can be done through your chain of command - and discuss your career options.

    There is no reason why you cannot take you skills to the HUMINT discipline - there is plenty of variety there plus the opportunity to deploy.

    The needs of the service do come first - you should have had the APC brief at some point in your career - this is a professional Army with objectives to meet therefore we need to use your skills to the service's best advantage. But this does not preclude the need for your career profile to be broadened nor prevent OPMI(L)s diversifying.

    And we have all got to 'drive a broom' at some point during our career. If you feel that you are being mis-managed see it as an opportunity of learning how not to manage soldiers. When you get to manage soldiers yourself you will be so much better.

    Get yourself on some adventure training or sporting courses - qualifications will give you a chance to show your leadership and management skills.


  7. :D :D :D :D

    You were doing quite well up to that bit!
  8. And therein lies the bulk of the problem. Not only did the Directorate write cheques that their corporate body couldn't cash, but the system changes too often and too arbitrarily. More later.

    Are Lings drawing the short straw? Not entirely. There are Lings out here now who are saving lives, not just one or two lives, but dozens of them. Their main complaint is that they don't know enough to do it quicker and better. That isn't their fault. Some of the course are quick and dirty to fill an urgent operational requirement. The problem is they often only just about manage it. That leads to frustration when the guys aren't as competent in the language as they would like to be. Learning a language is hard work and frequently a monotonous grind of learning vocab, vocab and more vocab, for months on end. It isn't something you can jiff people to do. You have to want to do it, so why don't our people want to do it?

    A lot of the problem is perception. "My mates are all going off to do Army stuff and I'm going to school!" "My mates are getting valuable operational experience and getting proper reports for the board next year" (I can tell you that my CR when I was at Beaconsfield had none of the boxes ticked, and the 1st RO wrote a brief spiel saying I was on a language course and couldn't really be assessed. Things have changed for the better since, but at the end of the day you are on a language course and assessment is difficult.) Yes those are valid arguments, and I agree that when you are 20 or 21 the last thing you want to do, having finally got out of school, is to go back to one in a flowery uniform, but look at the bigger picture.

    Some of the guys (and girls) have more operational experience than you can shake a stick at, and probably a few have more than anyone really wants. So you'll have to define what you want. Is it to go to a unit and work and do a job, or is it to get out in the ooloo and get smelly?

    The exigencies of the service. Hmm, I've got to agree with NTTT on this one. What do you want to do now you have a language? Check 102s?, rattle padlocks?, draw NAIs?, look at photos?, talk to naughty people?. I'm not decrying any of them; I've checked a few 102s and drawn enough NAIs to last me a lifetime, but you have to see that having learned a language which is operationally important, trhe chances of you being sent of to Germany to write CI reports in Sennelager or wherever are quite slim, and rightly so. You also need to recognise your own limitations. A basic language course will not have you chatting with Mullah Omar like you are old muckers.

    The answer? Mate if I knew I wouldn't be where I am, but here's a few ideas. Stop pretending we are a single trade. I've banged this drum enough to be a bore now, but the Corps is full of specialists, doing specialist and, dare I say it, special things. When you have to post someone from the job they've being doing brilliantly all their life to a job they know nothing about just so as their career profile looks good on a board 3-5 years from now, there is something wrong. We need every specialist being special at what they do, never more so than now.

    Reinstate seperate promotion boards for linguists. Controversial. I've spent 4 years of my career on language courses, and I've only done two languages. That's 4 years, or significant portions of them, without decent stuff for a CR. It hasn't done me any harm, but I was lucky to be where I was when the changeover came. ( And yes, I have chosen those words very carefully).

    Finally, start recruiting linguists. We've always been short of them, because the courses are difficult, long and it is often difficult to see the reason why when you lift your eyes to the horizon. Now we are short of them because we insist that linguists are selected after 2 years in the real world with their mates. It isn't going to happen, at least not often enough.

    Steb, mate a lot of those potential linguists are the ones leaning on a broom listening to linguists shimfing about how pants it is to be a linguist. A lot of you aren't exactly selling the job here fellas. Noone is going to do a job that you spend your life bleating about in the Pigs' Bar. It's a two-way street.

    Konets svyazi.
  9. Even though you seem to have slagged off Combat int (snif), the IA world (sorry, no sniff), didn't mention CR or fecking Huminters. Even though you are a darksider (grrr).

    That is quite possibly the truest, clinical statement of the Corps today, and PChick, for a very short period, I salute you. Take a bow.

    Ok. Funs over.
  10. I'm not signing off!!!! Yes I hate a certain location but - for the moment - I no longer have to suffer it! As for the HUMINT I have done it and really enjoyed my role - no paperwork too!!!! I am merely pointing out the issues that are current gripes with people now coming in and with people that have already signed off!!!

    I have no issue with driving a broom if I didn't have something more important to do, however when you are called back from actually doing something of use to both your colleagues on ops and enhancing the productivity of the place to do so - and on a regular basis - it started to get a bit annoying! Also with respect to getting on any AT at said location all I can say is that all the AT quals I gained were self-funded and done in my leave and POTL. The only courses I was released to attend were those that MCM had over-riding authority to release me for. Green hat!!

    You are totally right about the management thing though. I learned so much about how not to do things it's unbelievable and some people slag our scaley friends off as being useless!!

    kept this bit til last - sorry to say this but this is not the 'current' policy - things may change in what has been quoted as being in about 5 years. In reality until the manning situation changes and whilst we have to bridge the gap due to the new policy of doing a posting first before doing the language course there isn't going to be much opportunity for the diversity that you speak of!

    You hit the nail on the head, how can we sell it - let me try!

    Potential linguist: You're a linguist what's it like?

    Bitter broom driver: It's great, it's the best thing I ever did, join up you won't regret it!

    Potential linguist: but you're driving a broom in a freezing hangar and when you're not doing that you're de-rusting things, getting fast-balled for duties and events that people have known about for months at the last minute and generally treated like a second class siggie because people are bitter you get promoted quicker than they do.

    Bitter broom driver: [thinking it's the only way he can get posted out] It's great, it's the best thing I ever did, join up you won't regret it!

    Being a linguist when you are on ops, with your own capbadge and people who have something about them has been the most rewarding job I have ever done and would not change that part for the all the tea in China - being at 14 was (and still is) the worst experience I have had to date - IN MY ENTIRE LIFE!!!!
  11. Well there's a start, in your own words. Wasn't that hard, was it?
  12. This raises a much wider argument. Are we a Corps of:

    a. Int Analysts

    b. Collectors

    c. Both

    If the preferred choice is A, then we drop our collectors - see ya later HUMINTers. (Like that would ever happen)

    If your choice is B, who does the Analysis? Civvies remoted back to blighty? Fine until your e-mail link goes down or you want something out of hours.

    Finally we have C. My personal choice and probably the way it should be done. An Intelligence Corps should be responsible for all aspects of intelligence provision to the formations they support. So no RA command of UAVs and no scaley ownership of SIGINT. This way you could have guys that want to stay in certain disciplines getting a worthwhile career. As for the manpower considerations, any jobs that don't require a green beret get farmed out to other arms. No doubt that would encourage the decent ones to transfer!!!!
  13. Surely no RAC ownership of Formation Recce while we're at it. Agree with the above and it would probably lessen the mindless fcuking about that our (L) bretheren receive - as we know there would still be fcuking about - it would just be different - it would begin with the word 'Exercise' and would have the word 'Green' in it somewhere!
  14. As one who only had to suffer the Scaleys at Armd Bde level I can fully appreciate what our Ling friends have to go through at Regt level, particularly when that Regts name has the word SIGNALS in it. They must be completely insufferable and anyone that thinks they don't misuse the whip hand that they clearly have at this, and other establishments, has probably not spent enough time "in barracks" with the bitter, ****, retards.

    The problem of motivating our OPMI(L)s in these trying circumstances is definitely not a new one, and as long as it has rumbled on the message has come out loud and clear, "we don't mind the work, it is enjoyable and frequently rewarding! We just don't like being ordered about by these disgruntled pioneers, particularly as you turn your faces away from us while we are there, and do not protect our interests"

    Until this is an Int Corps role the problem will persist and frankly the Scaleys are lovin that we're hatin it. That's just what they are like!
  15. The Corps could easily make a move on the SIGINT community, and take some of the control away from the Royal Corps of Signals. At one point a couple of years ago it looked like the Corps would be virtually pushed out of SIGINT. Fortunately a recent restructuring has shifted the balance and the Royal Signals are no longer holding all the cards. First off, we need to get rid of the Supervisors (Radio); get them replaced by Int Corps SNCO's. What do Supervisors (Radio) really know about what linguists are doing now? They are a relic of the Cold War that really should just roll over and die. Secondly, get all of the Spec Ops working in SIGINT replaced with OPMI's. What does a Spec Op know about analysis? No Supervisors (Radio) and no Spec Ops means no Traffic Officers (Radio). There you go, have some more promotions and LE Commissions to dish out to Int Corps personnel.

    Right, now I'm on a roll, I'm going to fix EW. As before, get rid of the Supervisors Radio and the Spec Ops. With the exception of the ELINT guys, what good is a Spec Op when it comes to EW? They are of little or no use; technology has made the Spec Op trade pretty much redundant. Once again, what does a Supervisor (Radio) know about the work our linguists do? Get them replaced by Int Corps SNCO's. Rename the Regiment to 14 MI Bn (EW) and we now have new CO and RSM posts, as well as a handful of Maj/Capt's.