Opinions please

#1
While reading the 'Look what I received in my inbox' thread, something fallingplate said made me think:

fallingplate said:
Yes there are some potential recruits who enlist in the Territorial Army with a view to mobilise for operations as soon as possible. The Army values their contribution. There are also some potential recruits who enlist in the Territorial Army for a hobby, like it or not that is the case and those people have just as much to contribute as anyone else. The Army's point of view is all Territorial Army Soldiers make a valuable contribution whether they mobilise or not.

I for one will not discriminate against a Territorial Army Soldier who has not mobilised and will not unduly favour one that has.
How are 'fresh from training straight to mobilisation' soldiers perceived?

Is it better to go as soon as possible so all training is still fresh in their heads and the enthusiasm is still in abundance?

Or is it better to wait a year or so and gain a bit more experience through exercises etc?
 
#2
depends if you are sending basic trained soldiers or those trained special to arm
 
#5
At least after trade training you'll have got a better idea of what is expected of you and whether you'll enjoy being mobilsed
 
#6
In know that RY official policy is that you can't be mobilised for two years from completion of CMSR - idea being to allow time for trade training and for new soldiers to gain experience.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
I feel uncomfortable with guys going on ops a few months after they pass CIC. As regs have 6 months full time training before they do, i dont like the idea that TA can go in harms way with only a few weeks of training under their belts. To my mind there should be at least 12 months of service including at least one camp, before they are eligible to deploy.
 
#8
chrisg46 said:
I feel uncomfortable with guys going on ops a few months after they pass CIC. As regs have 6 months full time training before they do, i dont like the idea that TA can go in harms way with only a few weeks of training under their belts. To my mind there should be at least 12 months of service including at least one camp, before they are eligible to deploy.
From what I hear mate, my mob will be doing a three-month beat-up before deployment, which should sort out those who are a little lacking (or get rid of them before flying out).

Only hear-say mind... not confirmed by any means.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
craigd said:
chrisg46 said:
I feel uncomfortable with guys going on ops a few months after they pass CIC. As regs have 6 months full time training before they do, i dont like the idea that TA can go in harms way with only a few weeks of training under their belts. To my mind there should be at least 12 months of service including at least one camp, before they are eligible to deploy.
From what I hear mate, my mob will be doing a three-month beat-up before deployment, which should sort out those who are a little lacking (or get rid of them before flying out).

Only hear-say mind... not confirmed by any means.
Sounds fair, we did similar before Telic 6. I think it depends on what you will be doing in theatre. Force Protection, the standard job for a TA coy on tour is fairly straightforward, but if a ta guy goes out as an IR for a reg combat unit, and can expect to see sustained combat a la Ross Kemp, then more experience is needed IMHO...
 
#10
chrisg46 said:
but if a ta guy goes out as an IR for a reg combat unit, and can expect to see sustained combat a la Ross Kemp, then more experience is needed IMHO...
Agree completely with that mate.
 
#11
craigd said:
chrisg46 said:
but if a ta guy goes out as an IR for a reg combat unit, and can expect to see sustained combat a la Ross Kemp, then more experience is needed IMHO...
Agree completely with that mate.
So what about say OpMI, Medic, UAV operator (examples, as opposed to Infantry) - Straight from training or experience required?
 
#12
In my opinion ,there should be a minimum of 18 months flash to bang from CIC/Trade Training . We used to operate that time limit as I remember, it gave the FNG's the chance to work within the Coy, get some experience of working in a formation and batter the idiocy out of them.

Then again, we weren't in a situation where bodies were required for OPs quite so urgently.
 
#13
craigd said:
From what I hear mate, my mob will be doing a three-month beat-up before deployment, which should sort out those who are a little lacking (or get rid of them before flying out).

Only hear-say mind... not confirmed by any means.
In my experience the purpose of PDT has not been used for "weeding out" as the OC will intend on deploying with every man available.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
kes1 said:
craigd said:
chrisg46 said:
but if a ta guy goes out as an IR for a reg combat unit, and can expect to see sustained combat a la Ross Kemp, then more experience is needed IMHO...
Agree completely with that mate.
So what about say OpMI, Medic, UAV operator (examples, as opposed to Infantry) - Straight from training or experience required?
Well i can only really speak about Inf stuff, mainly because these are skills that are not replicated in civvy life. If the individial comes from a certain background (nurses etc for medics, mechanics for VM's, play a lot of xbox 360 for UAV's, according to the adverts! :twisted: ) then less time is needed. Also, if deployed in the rear, then the inexperienced can be overseen by others and not do direct harm. But if deploying to a fob and going out on the ground, then it is your individual skills and drills that increase your chances of keeping yourself and your muckers alive. to my mind, 9 weekends, and a two week camp will not necessarily give you those drills at an instinctive level.
I admit PDT should, and almost certainly does, vastly decrease the kinks etc, but i just feel uneasy that one day something terrible will happen due to an "inexperienced stab"
 
#15
chrisg46 said:
but i just feel uneasy that one day something terrible will happen due to an "inexperienced stab"
Perish the thought than an inexperienced regular soldier would do anything untoward...

msr
 
H

Hedphelym

Guest
#16
Well, I'm on CIC in April (Was on it last November, but became injured) and I hope to be deploying for Herrick 11 in May. This includes 3 months Pre-deployment training.
Now, I'm no expert, but I would hazard a guess that if you arent "good" enough for deployment - You won't be going. That is surely the same for TA or the regs. "Your shit has got to be in one sock" as my SPSI would say, and I don't think a bit of a mong will get through PDT just because on paper they are a fully trained soldier.
From what I can gather from my unit's deployment (we will be attached to a regular inf battalion) is that every unit sends a select few forward for PDT, and you are assesed during PDT as to your suitability for a tour.

That seems fair and just to me. I trust the powers and ranks that be that they know what they need out there and won't settle for anything less.

So as I say, I hope to be deployed. I put a 110% effort into the TA, and I do my best to be the best soldier I can. But if it comes round to PDT, and they think I need more experience or whathaveyou, then I'll accept that.
However, a big reason for wanting to deploy is not only that I want to do my bit, but also for that experience to naturally make me a better soldier.

If TA training isn't seen as "enough" in itself in some peoples eyes, then what should we do, only send people that have had a tour before?
Passing CIC is supposed to mean that you are "trained to a standard to be ready to deploy on operations". I have trust in that. Although I have no regular experience, passing CIC and then getting through 3 months PDT, without being RTU'd and getting the tick in the box would give me the confidence to know that I am fit enough and knowledgable enough to deploy on operations to support a regular unit, who to my knowledge, go through the same fitness tests etc...
 
#17
Hmmm, I'm not sure on this one...
I spent a lot of time as a Tom and a Lance-jack tabbing around Dartmoor, come wind rain and shine. In fact I remember a time when we were on exercise virtually every other weekend! I believe that it served greatly in preparing for things to come.
Now, whilst I agree you can train pretty much anyone to operate in Theatre during three months PDT. It is the time taken to do the mundane stuff that makes you a better soldier. Lying in OP's for hours on end waiting for the storeman and driver to walk past whistling dixie, isn't the greatest idea of fun, but if you treat it as a valuable training tool, you will learn how to cope with boredom, that you can survive being wet and miserable, and acquire the discipline required to remain absolutely silent whilst conducting a CTR or lying up in a FuP (how loud is that velcro again?!). It's about building confidence, building respect and buidling character. All those cliches that we claim the TA gives us (discipline, integrity, courage etc etc). More importantly, it allows us to hone fine skills, moving at night quietly, packing kit the same everytime, learning SoP's and putting them into practice, becoming a good shot, and understanding why. I think a period of 'soak time' prior to deployment is better in the long run for the individual and the unit. Not necessarily what the lads want to hear, but that is what the older and wiser amongst us are there to teach them, isn't it?
I can think of a number of lads on tour now, all good blokes, but not more than 6 months out of CIC. With good leadership they should be fine. But I still wonder if this time is long enough? I would hate to find out one of them had got hurt, because they weren't fully mentally and emotionally prepared.
Having said that, when I was 6 months out of CIC, I was ready to take on the world!! (Although it was a different world eleven years ago!) and you couldn't have told me any of those things!
 
#18
OnTheBus, your last sentence was really what I was thinking of. Enthusiasm and eagerness + all the training fresh in heads compared to say 12-18 months time in doing courses and the required w'ends and 2 week camp?
 
#19
I see your point of view.
Just bare in mind though that 12-18 months of training doesn't mean your training is devalued or fade's away (unless you let it), the opposite should be true, if you take every opportunity to use the skills you have been taught and develop them, then you should be in a stronger position, and better prepared to get stuck in at the sharp end.
Either way, make sure you have that chat with yourself, and go in with your eyes wide open.

(God, I sound like an old fart!!!)
 
#20
Sending one of my mates away on Herrick with a regular RE unit in a close support role. Asked him how many nights had he 'camped out' ie on exercise with our TA Sqn, answer was one. Bearing in mind he is a regular attender for about 2 years I find that completely annoying. Never mind, we were told he will be trained up on his 3 months with his regular sqn. He has got no real tactical training if you put it that way, with that unit.

Same with the other blokes attached to them, complete disgrace if you ask me not to mention being completely immoral. I expect it will be different for other units but a scandolous state of affairs if you ask me.

Spleen vented
 
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