Opinions on OSC ??

Discussion in 'Staff College and Staff Officers' started by machiavelli, Jul 25, 2006.

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  1. Gentlemen / ladies any comments on Overseas Staff Colleges would be useful. Particularly interested in the US SC but want to know how i go about getting on it /making my interests known (and listened too) and what does it entail;

    Have heard two contrasting opinions -

    1. Great, best thing ever done really enjoyable and gets you the sought after "J" tick......
    2. Complete waste of time as they put you on the overseas element of the course and therefore you are treated as a floppy and dont get to do anything particularly good......

    As these opinions seem to directly contradict each other i am (as always) slightly confused.........please help. Should i fail in getting to US SC where else is held in good esteem by Army Wallahs that control our careers ?
     
  2. That's because you will be.
     
  3. Roger - but more in the terms of floppy not able to be trusted with the real stuff (even though worked in Septic HQs on Ops) as opposed to overseas but trusted ally in war on terror type way
     
  4. I imagine any overseas SC will be run very much as ours is - for the benefit of the home nation's students. This is entirely reasonable, and will place home nation students in the more crunchy command appointments with overseas students taking on more supportive roles. This doesn't mean to say you wont be valued, I'm sure you will be, but you will need to be realistic over who the course is designed for.

    I've heard both the Indian and Pakistani colleges' are very good - you even get taken on 'live' battlefield tours/TEWTs. A friend went to the Australian college and had a fantastic time socially. My only concern with the US SC is their work ethic - are you ready for 5am starts? 8O
     
  5. My experience of the current procedures for OSC is purely for those successful on the Beige List - ie not those applying via the E2 list for Spanish Staff College etc. Instead of ICSC I was offered the opportunity to apply for US or GE Staff Colleges.

    GE Staff College is 2 yrs in Hamburg plus a yr language trg. US Staff College 1 yr guaranteed in Leavenworth and then the School of Advanced Military Studies (again at Leavenworth). Selection for the 2nd yr but apparently no British offr has failed to be selected. Not sure about quals for GE staff college - I assume a minimum of psc. US Staff College psc, with SAMS it is psc(j).

    I did not apply because I am single and have worked for US SAMS educated offrs and didn't fancy the lifestyle. Having spoken to 2 friends who have been they thoroughly enjoyed their time - but they were going married accompanied and could therefore escape in the evenings.

    I thought that boozing in Wiltshire would be better - I'll let you know in a few months once I am on ICSC(L) 3A... :roll:
     
  6. TY useful info so far but as an example is all this US SC work ethic stuff true or slightly over hyped spam stuff. Have worked with US at Tac and Strat level and their staff do not seem to be 5am weirdoes ?
    What about work ethics at other OSC ?
     
  7. I attended the USMC Command and Staff course two years ago and, when compared to the ACSC 8 experience of my buddies, it was the best decision I ever made. You ask specifically about the work ethic and I can allay your fears. The US PME system has a remarkably enlightened view on education and gives plenty of time for reading, research and reflection. Thus I rocked up to work at 0800 and by 1300 I was on my way home again to crack the reading/play Golf. The focus of the course is also different, no tech, procurement, defence adminstration stuff, just theory and nature of war, strategy, operational art, warfighting and two months on 'small wars'. I loved it. I was selected for SAW (School of Advanced Warfighting) but the UK wouldn't let me stay. If you get the chance bite their hands off.

    Now, it is not for everyone. ACSC 10, ICSC(L)3A/B will be better for networking and, if you like your learning to be of the 'drinking at the firehose of knowledge' type, you will learn more 'craft' skills in the UK. The move, accompanied I presume, to the US subjects you to US bureaucracy and the ineptitude of the British embassy, and this can be painful. Your wife and kids may also not want to return home. Nevertheless, on balance I think the US is the way forward, particularly if it means missing ICSC(L).

    Other Staff Colleges will offer different benefits, however, if you have ambitions for OF5 and beyond I wouldn't stray beyond the countries you have already mentioned.

    Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
     
  8. Hey! What's wrong with Spanish Staff College? I think its brilliant, me!

    I'm really going to miss Madrid's public transport and as for the dog turds....
     
  9. The advantages of attending OSC, and in particular the US, are well covered by the earlier responses. There is a draft DIN in the works that will lay out the latest policy, but in essence if you are selected for the US you will get psc for the CGSC year and psc (j)(US) and exemption from ACSC for the SAMS year. Make no mistake, you will not be treated as a floppy. The CGSC course continues to change and to challenge the US students as much as it does the international element. The 2 Brits are selected with the expectation that they will enter and pass the SAMS selection exam, but it is not a free pass. There is another forum regarding Systemic Operational Design that refers to an article in the current BAR that was written by the two UK SAMS students who graduated this year - that is a fair indication of the standard that you can aspire to at SAMS. You are exempt initial Grade 2 staff and are run for black bag jobs at the appropriate stage - recent grads have gone to 3UK Div, PJHQ and JFHQ.
    The recent batches of students have included single guys, pads and pads with kids - education not a problem with those in junior school. Medical coverage is excellent; wives of CGSC students are not allowed to work. There is time to travel (block leave at Christmas and in between CGSC and SAMS). Probably covers the main elements - nuff said?