Operation Ottoman Freedom. Whose side are you on?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by whitecity, May 14, 2006.

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  1. Interesting build-up of news:





    Do we:
    a) Assume the PKK to be a terrorist organisation and support the Turks?
    b) Assume the PKK to be freedom fighters and support them in their fight against Turkey?
    c) Support whichever hires the better lobby group and wins more influence?
    d) Bury our heads in the sand?

    PS. Who is responsible for border security in that area: US military, Iraqi army or local warlords?
     
  2. Well as we started the fashion for bombing the kurds .I guess this time we should back them . Best we stay out of it imho.
     
  3. I vote D, our last little outing in Turkey didn't turn out to well...

    Turkey really aren't happy about the Kurds in north iraq getting more power, they're scared of a breakaway kurd state. Then again the treatment of kurds by the turks seems to leave much to be desired if you believe various reports etc
     
  4. We should intevene politically at least to a certain extent. Lets remember the PKK have deliberatly targeted civilians as well as military / govt targets and if we want Turkey to help in any NATO operations that we are involved in it is important that we show them that we will support them when they need it.

    Im not going to generalise the whole kurdish situation but given all the crap they have had to deal with Saddam, at least they now have a (relitavly) safe area which they can settle in, it may not be everything that they wanted such as the areas claimed in Iran and Turkey but at least it is something. Is it worth continuous bloodshed for the sake of a few mountains in the north? We must denounce the PKK element whilst supporting the moderate Kurds in their efforts to achive some form of peaceful existence in Iraq. Given the power they carry in the Iraqi govt and their area of Iraq tending to be a seperate issue to the Shiite / Sunni issues, surely there must be a decent chance of achieving this throught peaceful means rather then violence?

    I do not support some of the methods employed by the Turkish Army and acknowledge that they have hardly been angels themselves however the fact that they launch pre-emptive strikes seems a pretty fair argument for self defence.
     
  5. On a personal POV, D! Turkey has every right to fight against terrorism (never mind that its has probably exacerbated the situation its self :? ) but a quick Turkish military campaign could convince the Kurds that any separation from Iraq may not be in its best interests.
     

  6. Is there any oil involved?
     
  7. Plenty!

    The kurdish provinces have about 1/3 of Iraqs Oil.

    Emough to worry the Sunni's in Baghdad and enough to give a future Kurdish state an econmically viable future. BUT they have no access to the sea and therefore would require a pipeline through either Iran, Iraq or Turkey. None of whom would support the creation of a Kurdish State.
     
  8. What I meant to say was:

    Who can control the oil to the satisfaction of Dubya and his mates?

    Then you will know who we should support
     
  9. Ah but remember that Kirkuk and Mosul are disputed - their is no guarantee that the non-Kurdish inhabitants would accept life in a free Kurdish state.
     
  10. Best bone up on your history, Crabby.

    It was the British Army that knocked Turkey out of the war. With the subsequent victory of the allies over the central powers the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

    The victorious allies carved up the Turkish Empire and drew the lines on the map of the Middle East in 1922.
     
  11. The Turkish/PKK problem has been around for quite some time now, the 'Kurdish Question' much, much longer.

    The reason I bring up the problem now, is that the PKK are now taking shelter in a country that is nominally our, ie the Coalition, responsibility viz-a-vis security and stability. Turkey could quite legitimately accuse us of harbouring terrorists. What to do? Here's General Pace's answer to a direct question set to him by the Turks 6 weeks ago about what the US military will do about the PKK,

    And that, of course, could be years away!!!

    Just what is he saying, 'we know that the PKK are terrorists, but they're not bothering us so we won't bother them'? Or is he saying 'it's an Iraqi problem, so the US isn't bothered'?

    And so much in here http://ankara.usembassy.gov/statement_032406.html that I couldn't decide what to quote.... :wink:
     
  12. I´m on the Kurds side,the Turks have been murdering them for years with help from German arms sales,Phantom jets(no weapons,just recce role Ha Ha Ha) and older tanks M48,s and M60´s they want the Leopard but the Green´s wont budge.

    I believe there are about 40 million Kurds seeking a homeland,which is a lot more that a few previously homeless in Israel.

    The Turks are Greedy and cruel and will rape Europe if allowed to become an EEC partner,I´d rather have a weaker Turkey and a fledgling Kurdish state.Ok oil is involved especially in Northern Iraq,but it´s only valuable when it can be sold,they can´t hold the West to ransom because they need the money to support themselves.

    Time for work..................the world´s problems must wait!!!! :oops:
     
  13. According to the Turkish press at the moment the PKK is a myth or at the very most a wanna be terrorist/resistance/freedom fighter organisation.

    If the reports and the investigations which are ongoing are to be believed almost all of the attacks that have been carried out by the PKK have actually been the work of the Turkish army/ MIT.

    The Turkish government say that this is all a load of drivel and the PKK are responsible for the attacks.


    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=20254
     
  14. Turks, they've been screwed over by the West alot and it's about time we tried and made up for our monumental pluck up's (such as, supporting Greek independance in the early 1800's, lies and demonisation over the Armenian civil war, WW1 and siezure of the ME by Anglo-French forces, screwing them over land and reneging on a treaty regarding Mosul and northern Iraq, having a go at them for trying to protect their citizens against Greek terrorists during the Cyprus affair, Gulf War, etc).

    In all fairness to the Turks they've already lost a lot of land over the past 100 years and their side of the story is usually ignored in Europe.

    I think it's in our interests to try and engage the Turks and keep them friendly to the west.
     
  15. Turkey, I do think the Yanks gave sum sort of unofficial 'Promise' to the Kurds to help them gain their 'Independance' of some sort and promised to the Turk that 'They' would get them into Europe, hence the actions of TCB.
    john