Operation Market Garden......Mission Impossible?

ugly

LE
Moderator
Same thing, surely?

And you were up all night looking for that weren't you?
Oddly enough no! I was tucked up by 2045 so missed the post and when I logged in today it took my less than a minute to find using Irish Guards covenantor tank as the search
 
I seem to remember smoking the damn things back in the day. Amazing linkages though
I smoked Fribourg & Treyer for a while. They don't exist anymore either!
 
Is it just me, or am I the only one to think that many people are putting the 'Hollywood' perception on to the operation?

The simplification from our more recent perspective is that a military operation works like a scalpel, to achieve a heroic aim with no collateral damage and minimal casualties. In the real world, after years of war and decades of European unrest, the Allies had the overwhelming resources to continually grind down the German military, and successfully did so. Not a rapier, but a bludgeon -- and a very effective one.

The amount of materiel destroyed and production stress caused to the Germans did indeed shorten the war. Perhapsby not so much, admittedly, as the Soviets were busy bludgeoning from the other direction with massively overwhelming power, but added together the final and inevitable result was hastened. The Operation was part of a succes, as were all the other large and small skirmishes, fights and battles along the way.
 
I smoked Fribourg & Treyer for a while. They don't exist anymore either!
I tried everything legal. Passing Cloud was an old Irish favourite I think. Never came across your brand though. Sobranie were ok, but became quite common. Probably the best femembered was on the third week of that massive exercise we used to do in Germany - pipe tobacco rolled in army issue bog paper!
 
I tried everything legal. Passing Cloud was an old Irish favourite I think. Never came across your brand though. Sobranie were ok, but became quite common. Probably the best femembered was on the third week of that massive exercise we used to do in Germany - pipe tobacco rolled in army issue bog paper!
Done all of that - rolling fag butts in that shiny paper! Desperation or what....

F&T were uber posh and very hard to find, nice fags though. Sobranie however I remember too - Balkan and Cocktail, my eldest sister smoked them (died of lung cancer nearly 10 years ago bless her).

I've had an on/off relationship with smokes since bumping into my Headmaster fag in hand in 1977. Haven't smoked now for well over a decade with many a significant gap before that - it used to be impossible to avoid!
 
Done all of that - rolling fag butts in that shiny paper! Desperation or what....

F&T were uber posh and very hard to find, nice fags though. Sobranie however I remember too - Balkan and Cocktail, my eldest sister smoked them (died of lung cancer nearly 10 years ago bless her).

I've had an on/off relationship with smokes since bumping into my Headmaster fag in hand in 1977. Haven't smoked now for well over a decade with many a significant gap before that - it used to be impossible to avoid!
I read a mens health mag about '95 and I was feeling queezy after a rough night. I had been on meds for PTSD for a long time and I decided that day to stop the lot, meds, coffee, fags - absolutely quit. substituted ice lollies (few calories) and I never touched them again - nor the meds. No idea how I managed it - my wife was away at the time in the middle east and didn't see her for about ten months - she was amazed.......me too.
 
Oddly enough no! I was tucked up by 2045 so missed the post and when I logged in today it took my less than a minute to find using Irish Guards covenantor tank as the search
Bizarre tank by the way, apparently the driver tended to be asphyxiated in early versions due to the piping running through his compartment
 
Is it just me, or am I the only one to think that many people are putting the 'Hollywood' perception on to the operation?

The simplification from our more recent perspective is that a military operation works like a scalpel, to achieve a heroic aim with no collateral damage and minimal casualties. In the real world, after years of war and decades of European unrest, the Allies had the overwhelming resources to continually grind down the German military, and successfully did so. Not a rapier, but a bludgeon -- and a very effective one.

The amount of materiel destroyed and production stress caused to the Germans did indeed shorten the war. Perhapsby not so much, admittedly, as the Soviets were busy bludgeoning from the other direction with massively overwhelming power, but added together the final and inevitable result was hastened. The Operation was part of a succes, as were all the other large and small skirmishes, fights and battles along the way.
I have just started reading The End: Hitler's Germany 1944-45.

It doesn't major on Allied operations other than to set context, rather it focusses on events and attitudes in Nazi Germany from about the 20 July plot.

Last night I was in amongst a section in the introduction, dealing with the period around September 1944, inside Germany. It shed new light, for me anyways, on the broader German perspective: things like panic in the streets of Aachen, only 3 days before Op MG kicked off, and the resultant fears among the Nazi top shop that Das Heer might seriously be on the verge of collapse.

I think I got it as a 99p Kindle daily deal. Well worth a look.
 
Oddly enough no! I was tucked up by 2045 so missed the post and when I logged in today it took my less than a minute to find using Irish Guards covenantor tank as the search
I was soo hoping you had really, really been overwhelmed by your inner Rainman :-D
 
Last night I was in amongst a section in the introduction, dealing with the period around September 1944, inside Germany. It shed new light, for me anyways, on the broader German perspective: things like panic in the streets of Aachen, only 3 days before Op MG kicked off, and the resultant fears among the Nazi top shop that Das Heer might seriously be on the verge of collapse.
It sounds superficially plausible that Market-Garden making a localised(-ish) attack, and hence a clearer threat to Germany, could have focussed general panic-and-despair into specific resistance, but the logistic efforts needed to do that were crippling. How aware the average squaddie of any nation actually was of the bigger picture as a motivator, rather than unit actions, would be interesting to consider. There are also the points that the Western Allies didn't want the Soviet border any further West than necessary, and a lack of action in the West might have encouraged Stalin to keep on going, Yalta or no Yalta.

This month, in the area of the Dutch / German border where I live, there are a lot of commemorative events going on concerning Veritable. Events of seventy-five years ago are certainly not forgotten, though may be misinterpreted.
 
Fags, aren't they what you public schoolboys have to do your kit, and to bully and torture.
Precisely - that’s why I got into trouble!
 

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