Operation Market Garden......Mission Impossible?

I can't shake the nagging sense of possibility that the Brits were taking time out to 're-enact' something for the camera.
I bought The World At War boxset on DVD about 15 years ago and as you would expect there were a number of extra films, etc., included that were not shown at the time. One of these includes interviews with members of the Sherwood Forresters who were at Anzio. They recount being given German uniforms and weapons and being told to act out being captured by British troops. The whole staged event being filmed and shown on newsreels at home.
 
Minus a couple of Panzer Dive refitting it had a strong chance of success, it would,however,have lost us a great film
Several Films
''A Bridge too far''
''Theirs is the Glory''
''They were not divided''
 
I'm making some assumptions here. After watching the video a few times, I think this is early on in the op because the troops all have their equipment plus more.

They all appear fresh and joyful. The mix of vehicles and troops would possibly also make it early on, as in not long off the DZ/LZ. The jeeps with the vickers K guns were I think only on the recce jeeps. There is one jeep with a vickers mg on the bonnet.

I assume the jeep with the vickers mg is from one of the airlanding (S. Staff's, Border, KOSB) units designated to hold the DZ/LZ's. The recce jeep is self explanatory.

If it is an airlanding Jeep then it could also be when the S Staff's and 11th Para Reg were ordered by Brig Hicks to leave the defence of the DZ/LZ's and head towards Arnhem. IIRC on day 2.

Later on in the movie the troops are taking cover, which again I will assume means the advance elements have made contact, could this be when the recce first hit Sepp Kraffts blocking line. Or it could be later on when the blocking line was reinforced.

Once the confusion set in most units IIRC halted in place, and were gradually squeezed into the Oosterbeek pocket.

As I've mentioned, all of the above is supposition.

Edit: Having looked at the Market Garden Then and Now volume, it would appear that early (06.30) on the 2nd day the recce sqn moved out of it's night time laager to try and find a route through to Arnhem.

By 08.00hrs they were stopped in the Oosterbeek area by the reinforced German blocking line. The recce then spent the rest of the day probing the blocking line trying to find a way through.

I've also found out that the recce sqn also had a 3" mortar section, so my earlier supposition regarding airlanding jeeps could be wrong.
 
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As I've mentioned, all of the above is supposition.
Apart from placing it as Day 2.

The film title dates it 18 Sep 1944, which is when the plan really started to unravel (well described by Geoffrey Powell in Men At Arnhem, which I picked up for 99p - Kindle edition - a few weeks ago).
 
Apart from placing it as Day 2.

The film title dates it 18 Sep 1944, which is when the plan really started to unravel (well described by Geoffrey Powell in Men At Arnhem, which I picked up for 99p - Kindle edition - a few weeks ago).
Aye. I've also read Geoffrey Powell Men at Arnhem. Which is a very good read. I'm presently reading Remember Arnhem by John Fairley, which is another cracking read.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
I just stumbled on this interesting little YouTube snippet, filmed on a home cine cmera (8mm?) by an Oosterbeek resident on 18 September 1944, as Brit troops passed through the suburb, inbound, one presumes, for their objectives:

Now, perhaps it's just me, but I don't pick up an awfully strong sense of urgency from the brit troops: it's a nagging feeling I get every time I see the same old hackneyed selection of clips from the IWM being re-hashed at each anniversary, and I wonder if others respond to the same short films with a sense of 'something about that doesn't feel quite right'.

The one that really bugs me, is where the advancing troops in the foreground were filmed passing between the camera and this dude:

I can't shake the nagging sense of possibility that the Brits were taking time out to 're-enact' something for the camera.
Hmm. I'm always of the mind that history is not half so photogenic as Hollywood, Bollywood or Pinewood would have us believe. Take a snap shot during the commission of any great event, and unless you're very lucky, all you'll have is a happy snap of some blokes gurning at the camera. I can't remember where I read it, but I remember reading the following passage, and it struck me as quite accurate:

"History is never as dramatic as it should be. Take an aerial photograph of the Battle of Waterloo or the Normandy beaches on D Day, and I can guarantee you'll find some chap having a kip while his mate darns his socks". (or something like that)

I find that it's far too easy to read what you want to see into photos or footage, especially with the advantage of hindsight. Conversely my view of the clip you have linked to (bloody good too, I haven't seen it before so thank you!) is quite different. Whilst the first few Jeeps seem to be rattling along at a fair pace (coup de main force?), the following marching troops are moving at a reasonable patrolling pace . Troops halted are larking about with locals, as they have since time immemorial. Taking cover seems fairly relaxed; to me it looks like they might be securing a pre-recce'd route for the main body.

That doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong, I'm just trying to show how differently the same footage can be interpreted.

Edit: I see you've got it as filmed on the 18th which makes most of my fag-packet suppositions wrong, however I'll stick with my main contention and add that any interpretation of this footage should be made very, very carefully! ;)
 
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QRK2

LE
The AL Murray/James Holland Podcasts from last year on the battle are well worth a listen:


Though I do think James Holland is rather overrated, Al Murray does bring a certain J'ne sais what and a lot of enthusiasm. For those who don't know he is has an Oxford history degree and his father was a para sapper officer.
 
Apart from placing it as Day 2.

The film title dates it 18 Sep 1944, which is when the plan really started to unravel (well described by Geoffrey Powell in Men At Arnhem, which I picked up for 99p - Kindle edition - a few weeks ago).
Could the owner of the film have got the date wrong ?
The jeeps and the girl waving etc , look like Day 1 to me ?
Edit to add : The couple at 00.12 look as if they are coming back from church , judging by their dress , and the church is known to be up the road .
 
The AL Murray/James Holland Podcasts from last year on the battle are well worth a listen:


Though I do think James Holland is rather overrated, Al Murray does bring a certain J'ne sais what and a lot of enthusiasm. For those who don't know he is has an Oxford history degree and his father was a para sapper officer.
That makes Mr Murray a rare breed indeed.

Sired by a man who was both a Sapper and Airborne - and despite that - Al knows who he was! :thumleft:
 
Could the owner of the film have got the date wrong ?
The jeeps and the girl waving etc , look like Day 1 to me ?
Edit to add : The couple at 00.12 look as if they are coming back from church , judging by their dress , and the church is known to be up the road .
Day 1 was a Monday (17th), IIRC from the Middlebrooke history I dipped into last bedtime, so church frocks would seem unlikely. It is just possible they donned their glad rags double quick for the inevitable post-liberation after party.

Difficult to know.

Day One's Route TIGER (again IIRC) went bang through the centre of Oosterbeek, but the mapping was too scant to quickly identify who was treading it on Day Two.
 
Day 1 was a Monday (17th), IIRC from the Middlebrooke history I dipped into last bedtime, so church frocks would seem unlikely. It is just possible they donned their glad rags double quick for the inevitable post-liberation after party.

Difficult to know.

Day One's Route TIGER (again IIRC) went bang through the centre of Oosterbeek, but the mapping was too scant to quickly identify who was treading it on Day Two.
Day 1 was a Sunday. Horrocks didn't like it because he had never been in a Sunday attack that had succeeded.
 
Not just Panzer Divisions M&S ⚡⚡ Panzer Divisions.
In name, rather than substance. From Kershaw (at first hand) and from his INSIS, we learned that a sizeable chunk of the "Pz Div" Grenadier strength was (eventually) comprised of trainees at the NCOs-into-Officers training school in Bielefeld, who were moved en masse, at the rapid rate, much of the distance covered on foot, to Arnhem, which goes a long way to explain the paucity of the Inf/Tank coord displayed by the Huns.
 
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According to Wiki he died in Poland..........utter nonsense, he was torched at home in.................France in 1976!
That's what happens when you try to defend your cottage from a load of French communists with nothing more than a .22
He'd had plenty of warning , and wouldn't leave .
 
That's what happens when you try to defend your cottage from a load of French communists with nothing more than a .22
He'd had plenty of warning , and wouldn't leave .
I have read that he went back inside for his dog? Also that he saved a group of Jews in Italy with the local Rabbi defending him in a letter to the court during the Tribunals. Difficult to know where the truth lies
 
I have read that he went back inside for his dog? Also that he saved a group of Jews in Italy with the local Rabbi defending him in a letter to the court during the Tribunals. Difficult to know where the truth lies
His nickname was " Blowtorch " in Russia , he was very handy with a flamethrower .
 

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