Operation Market Garden......Mission Impossible?

With regards to TiK on YouTube, I stopped watching his videos recently when he made remarks alluding to the exaggeration of the Holocaust in a recent video
I went off TiK because of his style as much as anything. Some of his arguments make sense, although his trying to explain basic economics in one video was painful to watch (I'm an economics graduate for my sins). He does, to his credit, try to examine history through number crunching rather than talk in generalities, so although I haven't seen the video that you mentioned I suspect that he tried the same approach in that video.

As for Market Garden, he is very keen to blame Gavin and Browning, seeming to think that he has found the Holy Grail for the failure of MG. He even produced a video (withdrawn after a couple of hours following advice from many viewers, including myself) accusing Anthony Beevor of lying in his book about MG.

The reality is that MG required a lot of things to go right to work, and that is why it failed. Personally if I was to blame one person it would be US Major General Paul L Williams who dictated the air plan should only have one lift a day. Others may disagree with this, as is their right.
 
Wow, you lucky man! As an ex Tankie, I'd have given my eye teeth to have driven on that. What an experience.
I wonder if in 5 years time we will be able to drive 6 Sherman's onto a ferry and then drive across Holland ....
I hope we can do it again.....it was a moving and thought provoking thing to do and yes I'm lucky to have been part of it .
We had a couple of little issues with the tank but made it all the way and gave the locals a good working display when we changed a fuel pump in the middle of a town complete with a Scammell to lift the engine decks ;-)
You as an ex Tankie will appreciate how quickly the tank becomes home and your world is in the tank .
I certainly felt separation anxiety when it was loaded onto the transporter to go back to the port and we had to follow on some time later .
 
You as an ex Tankie will appreciate how quickly the tank becomes home and your world is in the tank .
I certainly felt separation anxiety when it was loaded onto the transporter to go back to the port and we had to follow on some time later .
Certainly can relate to that, normally on the first night back in from scheme. Only way to sleep was get in the NAAFI bar for a few( :eek:) bevvies.

Didn't miss the breakdowns in the Panzers though!!!
 
Didn't miss the breakdowns in the Panzers though!!!
Considering their age the Tanks all performed pretty well over 110 miles on road.

A newly restored Sherman having literally just been driven onto the transporter to go onto the ferry broke it's brand new drive shaft as he went to drive off the ferry in Holland ..... we towed him off with ours much to the amazement of the ferry staff and with help from contacts in Holland and the Dutch Army a new old stock shaft was sourced and fitted before the event started and he then did 110 miles with no real issues beside the normal Radial engine getting hot problems.

The Tank Museum (not owned by them) Multi Bank engined Sherman had just had a rebuilt engine fitted and suffered teething issues as you would expect but Gav and crew managed to keep her going until it blew a head gasket on one of the lower engines .....this is a pack out job so she retired gracefully.

We had a clutch line go and the fuel pump was giving a high idle ....both these were fixed in a town square and we left with more power than we started as the new fuel pump seems a real good un ;-)

Everyone else fettled and adjusted bits on the way and seeing as a radial rebuild is 40k plus a couple had precautionary stops but our breakdown rate was probably less than the Tigers would have suffered back in the day over the same distance.

God knows how much fuel was consumed but again that brings into focus the supply issues they would have faced during Opp Garden . We were doing less than 1mpg , the Petrol Sherman's probably less than 800 yards to the gallon.
 
Considering their age the Tanks all performed pretty well over 110 miles on road.

A newly restored Sherman having literally just been driven onto the transporter to go onto the ferry broke it's brand new drive shaft as he went to drive off the ferry in Holland ..... we towed him off with ours much to the amazement of the ferry staff and with help from contacts in Holland and the Dutch Army a new old stock shaft was sourced and fitted before the event started and he then did 110 miles with no real issues beside the normal Radial engine getting hot problems.

The Tank Museum (not owned by them) Multi Bank engined Sherman had just had a rebuilt engine fitted and suffered teething issues as you would expect but Gav and crew managed to keep her going until it blew a head gasket on one of the lower engines .....this is a pack out job so she retired gracefully.

We had a clutch line go and the fuel pump was giving a high idle ....both these were fixed in a town square and we left with more power than we started as the new fuel pump seems a real good un ;-)

Everyone else fettled and adjusted bits on the way and seeing as a radial rebuild is 40k plus a couple had precautionary stops but our breakdown rate was probably less than the Tigers would have suffered back in the day over the same distance.

God knows how much fuel was consumed but again that brings into focus the supply issues they would have faced during Opp Garden . We were doing less than 1mpg , the Petrol Sherman's probably less than 800 yards to the gallon.
We had a DDay show up here at a place called Fritton Lake for the 70th Anniversary. I picked up and delivered a Multi bank from a place nr Framlingham.
On the return journey he let me have a cabbie back to the truck. Didn't realise the things had a syncromesh gearbox. But the overwhelming thing was the sound..... what a noise!!!!!
IMG_20181122_123115.jpg
 
We had a DDay show up here at a place called Fritton Lake for the 70th Anniversary. I picked up and delivered a Multi bank from a place nr Framlingham.
On the return journey he let me have a cabbie back to the truck. Didn't realise the things had a syncromesh gearbox. But the overwhelming thing was the sound..... what a noise!!!!! View attachment 420989
And the owner is pictured hiding by your passenger door ... ;-)
That one stayed in the shed ..... so we now have 2 running / driving Multi Banks in the UK
Adrian was crew in a very nice International Halftrack this time .
Yes what a noise !!! but best heard from a distance , not 6 meters behind for hrs on end .....oh and the unburnt fuel fumes as well....... it was louder than Bas in the Radial engined Sherman with no silencers ...... and that made my ears ring for several days ......talking( well shouting actually ) between driver and co driver was impossible when we were following either .
 
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Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Those transferred to the Gds were BCRs for those who had filled their ranks on return to the UK from Italy and were lost in the first weeks of Normandy. The general feeling was of "That we had done our bit, Africa, Italy and now Normandy!"

The loss of morale in these experienced units was hastened by the UK based army interference in matters such as dress and equipment in the field. The veterans felt that those who had spent 4 years sat at home had no place in telling them how to do things. This was prevalent throughout those experienced units that Monty had hoped would be his spearhead.

It cost a few Generals and many more CO's their jobs before morals was restored and fighting ability returned to these units.

It was also experienced again during the closing stages of the fighting in Germany, no one wanted to be the last man killed or to die needlessly!
The 51st Highland Division is a fine an example of that
 
Just spotted this on Amazon, for Kindle £0.99p (monthly deal):

The Battle for the Rhine 1944: Arnhem and the Ardennes, the Campaign in Europe by Robin Neillands:

 

ches

LE
I'm currently reading this

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Bloody superb & i've read a lot of MG literature. While focussing on a single street spanning Oosterbeek - Arnhem the highly detailed descriptions of actions throughout the days of the operation really give you a street level view of the action. This book in particular gives some horrible insight into the retreat across the railway by 10 & 156 PARA while still in contact. Christ on a bike.
 
I'm currently reading this

View attachment 421917

Bloody superb & i've read a lot of MG literature. While focussing on a single street spanning Oosterbeek - Arnhem the highly detailed descriptions of actions throughout the days of the operation really give you a street level view of the action. This book in particular gives some horrible insight into the retreat across the railway by 10 & 156 PARA while still in contact. Christ on a bike.
I see that the author, he's new to me, has written several interesting books, including '24 Hours at Balaklava'.
 
I'm currently reading this

View attachment 421917

Bloody superb & i've read a lot of MG literature. While focussing on a single street spanning Oosterbeek - Arnhem the highly detailed descriptions of actions throughout the days of the operation really give you a street level view of the action. This book in particular gives some horrible insight into the retreat across the railway by 10 & 156 PARA while still in contact. Christ on a bike.
If he's the same ex-para Kershaw who was responsible for "It Never Snows" I hope he's worked on his writing style.

That was a right pain to read !
 
It was also experienced again during the closing stages of the fighting in Germany, no one wanted to be the last man killed or to die needlessly!
Read "With The Jocks" to get a feel for that, from a Pl Comd who joined his Bn in Sep 1944, not long after MG was done with.
 
On 18 April 1944 Churchill requested the transfer of 25,000 RAF Regiment personnel to the army as infantry, 2,000 of them immediately to the Guards. The Guards contingent were transferred by 27 June 1944, the rest gradually during the winter 1944-45 as the threat of air and V-weapon attacks receded.

An excellent discussion of the British man-power shortages can be found in

Hart, Stephen Ashley. Colossal Cracks: Montgomery's 21st Army Group in Northwest Europe, 1944-45. Stackpole Books, Mechanicsburg (PA), 2007. ISBN 978-0-8117-3383-0
**Chapter 3 "Casualty Conservation"**
Extracts from that there (excellent, if somewhat academic) book:
EXTRACTS


Full text of the orignal academic thesis which was the foundation for the book:
THESIS

Fill yer boots.
 
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I just stumbled on this interesting little YouTube snippet, filmed on a home cine cmera (8mm?) by an Oosterbeek resident on 18 September 1944, as Brit troops passed through the suburb, inbound, one presumes, for their objectives:

Now, perhaps it's just me, but I don't pick up an awfully strong sense of urgency from the brit troops: it's a nagging feeling I get every time I see the same old hackneyed selection of clips from the IWM being re-hashed at each anniversary, and I wonder if others respond to the same short films with a sense of 'something about that doesn't feel quite right'.

The one that really bugs me, is where the advancing troops in the foreground were filmed passing between the camera and this dude:

I can't shake the nagging sense of possibility that the Brits were taking time out to 're-enact' something for the camera.
 
I just stumbled on this interesting little YouTube snippet, filmed on a home cine cmera (8mm?) by an Oosterbeek resident on 18 September 1944, as Brit troops passed through the suburb, inbound, one presumes, for their objectives:

Now, perhaps it's just me, but I don't pick up an awfully strong sense of urgency from the brit troops: it's a nagging feeling I get every time I see the same old hackneyed selection of clips from the IWM being re-hashed at each anniversary, and I wonder if others respond to the same short films with a sense of 'something about that doesn't feel quite right'.

The one that really bugs me, is where the advancing troops in the foreground were filmed passing between the camera and this dude:

I can't shake the nagging sense of possibility that the Brits were taking time out to 're-enact' something for the camera.
Oosterbeek is quite a way from Arnhem and the bridge. I suspect that most of what we see are the guys left around Oosterbeek, after the dash for the bridge set off and well out of contact (for a day or so anyway). Remember that it was the location of an HQ, originally in a 'quiet' place.
(Edit for tpyo adn grammer).
 
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I just stumbled on this interesting little YouTube snippet, filmed on a home cine cmera (8mm?) by an Oosterbeek resident on 18 September 1944, as Brit troops passed through the suburb, inbound, one presumes, for their objectives:

Now, perhaps it's just me, but I don't pick up an awfully strong sense of urgency from the brit troops: it's a nagging feeling I get every time I see the same old hackneyed selection of clips from the IWM being re-hashed at each anniversary, and I wonder if others respond to the same short films with a sense of 'something about that doesn't feel quite right'.

The one that really bugs me, is where the advancing troops in the foreground were filmed passing between the camera and this dude:

I can't shake the nagging sense of possibility that the Brits were taking time out to 're-enact' something for the camera.
I would guess with all the transport they would be from the Glider- borne 1st Air-Landing Brigade. In Men At Arnhem, Geoffrey Howlett states that at the end of their fighting retreat from the DZ to Oosterbeek they came upon troops of the 1st Border Regiment dug in outside the time.
 
I would guess with all the transport they would be from the Glider- borne 1st Air-Landing Brigade. In Men At Arnhem, Geoffrey Howlett states that at the end of their fighting retreat from the DZ to Oosterbeek they came upon troops of the 1st Border Regiment dug in outside the time.
Not Howlett, Powell.

And, IIRC, Oosterbeek was never part of the plan, not even as an HQ site, it just happened to be where they wound up. Powell and his men had to fight their way to the place, and breach the German lines to get into the perimeter (he guided us to the spot, and described the events, 30 years ago).

I'd have to refresh my understanding, but wasn't Oosterbeek on at least one unit's route into the bridge, before it all went pear shaped?
 
Not Howlett, Powell.

And, IIRC, Oosterbeek was never part of the plan, not even as an HQ site, it just happened to be where they wound up. Powell and his men had to fight their way to the place, and breach the German lines to get into the perimeter (he guided us to the spot, and described the events, 30 years ago).

I'd have to refresh my understanding, but wasn't Oosterbeek on at least one unit's route into the bridge, before it all went pear shaped?
Sorry my mistake. I know that the 1st Airlanding Brigade's job was to hold the DZ's for the second lift, except for 2nd South Staffs which was sent with 1st Para Brigade with the objective to capture the bridge.
 
I would guess with all the transport they would be from the Glider- borne 1st Air-Landing Brigade. In Men At Arnhem, Geoffrey Howlett states that at the end of their fighting retreat from the DZ to Oosterbeek they came upon troops of the 1st Border Regiment dug in outside the time.
They seem to be a bit of a mixture. Chap getting fags out of his pocket at about 23 secs in seems to be wearing a Recce Corps cap badge, while the chap strolling along at 1.10 is definitely a Para.
 

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