OPEN SOURCE - Shankill Butchers

#61
On this occasion Wiki actually gets it right for once. Payne was in the UVF and defected with a few others when the UDA was formed. Apparently he crossed over because he judged his prospects for advancement to be better in the UDA - they were all Lieutenants and Colonels and Lieutenant-Colonels. Payne was an ex-Para, but with the majority of people in the early UVF being from an ex-service background this wouldn't have made him anything special.
 
#62
We're does the knowledge that Davey Payne was in the UVF come from?

At that time the UVF was still recruiting selectively and Tyndale was a UDA stronghold.
I very much doubt that Davey Payne would have rose to the rank of Brigadier of the UDA had he been a Volunteer in the UVF.
One of the direct mentions of Davey Payne in an HQNI log of 1972 states that he was a member of the UDA who returned a pistol that had been taken from an MRF patrol that had been roughed up in the Shankhill. I suspect that if he had been UVF the gun would never have been returned. On that basis I would say the claim that DP was UVF in the early 70's is nonsense.
 
#63
One of the direct mentions of Davey Payne in an HQNI log of 1972 states that he was a member of the UDA who returned a pistol that had been taken from an MRF patrol that had been roughed up in the Shankhill. I suspect that if he had been UVF the gun would never have been returned. On that basis I would say the claim that DP was UVF in the early 70's is nonsense.
The fact that the as known MRF were roughed up and actually lost a pistol as a result is a very big bit susp. Are you sure it wasn't an undercover dressed patrol of Monkeys (RMP) out swanning and doing their own thing as they liked to around that time?
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#64
Genuinely haven't a clue what rank he held bar 'Volunteer'. I do realise your comment is tongue in cheek
I was in someone’s house, off the Shankill. Perfectly sensible set up, album collection all very grown up. A couple of nice motorcycles out the back.
No books, (is that a shankill thing).
On the wall was an A4 framed print in remembrance of Lenny. I got caught looking, turns out they were related.
It’s a small world.
 
#65
You mean Murphy wasn’t really a Major?
The uvf didn't realistically have any hierarchial rank structure except in prison where it was described as an over militaristic commune. On the street it was the ones who murdered the most, even though some might be protestants that held the fear and resulting respect. If only there had been more actions of the basher bates release whereby he was promptly taken out by a victims relative then the Shankill road might be able to regain its dignity. They did after all manage to boot out Adair and his loser cronies.
 
#66
The fact that the as known MRF were roughed up and actually lost a pistol as a result is a very big bit susp. Are you sure it wasn't an undercover dressed patrol of Monkeys (RMP) out swanning and doing their own thing as they liked to around that time?
It was a three man patrol, one, the car commander, was as you suggest, a well known Welshman parented to RMP SIB, but his No2 was a Para lance jack. They had been chasing a car and were mistaken for a Republican hit squad when a crowd of loyalists nabbed them and gave Taff a good hiding. The car had also contained 78 rounds of 9mm loose in a bag that also had one of the fabled blue cosmetic bags, a blade and a cosh. The red folder with sensitive rota data was never recovered. Taff was subsequently, well we will leave that bit out, but then posted to HK and eventually commissioned - doesn't sound like the result of an 'off piste' event.
 
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