Open Carry

Discussion in 'US' started by alib, Aug 22, 2009.

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  1. Open Carry has become something of a movement in the US. This involves civilians stoating about with a firearm on display in places of perfect safety as a political statement.

    This includes even the house of God. Or political meetings.
    In some case because of state laws the gun isn't even loaded. Many of these folks are not crazies its just a logical extension of their politics.

    I can't really argue with this logic:
    Nor would I want to live in a society were this was viewed as normal or heaven forbid actually a necessity rather than an Waltish affectation.

    Firearm fearing Brits may be appalled by this idea but the right to bear arms is a very hot political issue in the US. Not just on the right, it stirs up the progressive side of the Dems mightily.

    The Dems have wisely been backing away from what had become a key culture war issue. A lot of folks don't give a damn about gay marriage, abortion or health care but touch their guns and they'll be up on their hind legs. Being armed is the tangible basis of an individualistic free society for a lot of Yanks and amongst poor whites its a key reason to distrust the Dems. The US "liberal" inclination towards gun control can too easily be interpreted as class warfare downward i.e. the kind that's liable to lose you votes.

    There's are practicalities. The bottom layer of US society often lives in grim situations were being armed can be a necessary comforter. Poor Black and Latino women are especially affected by violent crime and there's a .32 in many a cheap purse. Folk do defend themselves successfully often without firing a shot and when they do statistically are much less likely to shoot the wrong guy than US cops.

    There's this slightly hysterical opinion piece in Salon.
    Does open carry make you look gay? I can't help thinking he should have chosen a bigger gun and a higher holster.

    Now a Birther with in reach of any sharpened implement that would have me worried.
  2. I always wonder what the figures for NDs and injuries caused thereby are in the US?
  3. Through the roof I should imagine, if the range safety displayed on my recent visit is anything to go by. There were people allowed to fire weapons (including pistols and automatics) with very little training or knowledge of basic safety principles. Waving the weapon around wildly whilst hitting it seems to constitute a stoppage drill in the USA.
  4. msr

    msr LE

  5. As the Home Office can't provide data on how many households in the UK have legally owned firearms I wouldn't put too much faith in that "research".
  6. Ready to fire with all the ancills included for £18,500 God i want to live in the States
  7. IIRC, something like 40 Million Admitted gun owners in the USA (roughly 1/4 of all adults). Municipalities vary as to permiting procedures. Here in NYC, I cant even get a Home/Business or Target Permit without spending thousands of dollars and it can/will be denied at a whim. If I am a Donald Trump or Howard Stern I easily get a full carry permit from NYPD. Possession of a pellet gun is considered the same as having a Glock 17 here. 30 minutes away in Nassau county all one needs to purchase a handgun is a permit issued by the judge. For long guns a Photo ID with age and address. Fill out the forms, store calls the FBI instant check system and off you go.

    As to ND's expecting Civilians who havent had military training to hold to military standards is a reach. How many Squaddies or Dogfaces have ND's every year and we are all supposedly trained? I was raised on the Maxim that the "Empty Gun shoots the Loudest" I have owned /used firearms since I was 13 and never had a ND, nor run amok on a shooting spree. But thats the way I was taught by My Father.

    I own about 40 firearms held in Nassau county, and am big proponent on gun rights. Frankly bringing firearms to Political meetings or Presidential appearences is not very prudent, Not very intelligent to do, legal or not. The man with the "water the tree of liberty" sign is an idiot.
  8. msr

    msr LE

    That would only affect the x axis, not the y.
  9. It would throw a big question over the whole dataset in my view.

    I'd be interested to see the statistics for knives. What would that prove? That some societies have more of a crime problem than others?

    Remember, even if you believe the data, it isn't a a graph of lawful ownership of firearms vs intentional deaths from lawfully owned firearms.
  10. Which would still make the entire graph unreliable. If your car only had one flat tyre, would you still drive it?
  11. Thats almost certainly for weapons legally held/carried. The x axis will change dramatically if we take into account illegaly held weapons.
  12. Link
    Of course this is tragic but let's look on the bright side. Victims in US homicide shootings tend to be adolescent males from the bottom deciles in terms of income. A lot of these are young gangbangers shot by cops, the competition or their prey. They would be out on the rob or banged up at tax payers expense otherwise so there may be a hidden upside to the grim statistics. You could think of it as a regular crop of late term post-natal abortions.

    An armed society is certainly a less safe society. Some argue its also much less safe for criminals but open carry isn't really about social utility. The largely white middle class, middle aged males parading around with their Glocks hanging out are mostly harmless. This demographic does tend towards paranoia but is not exactly prominent in the homicide stats. They are more than 30 times less likely to get fatally shot than a young dude of dusky complexion. This is about dick waving individualism and a mans right to play cowboy with the real toys. There is nothing more American than that.

    There's a CDC DB here.
  13. A ridiculous spectacle yes, at least he had the sense to leave off "with the blood of patriots and tyrants." or perhaps he just ran out of sign.

    Gun nut myself with a small arsenal. I have never felt the need to strut about on main street with a .357 ostentatiously lashed to my thigh... well not since my balls dropped anyway. It seems like a peculiarly graceless way to behave at a peaceful political gathering.
  14. At the reception desk in the Holiday Inn Hotel in Bulawayo in Zimbabwe there used to be a sign which read "All weapons must be cleared before being handed in for safe keeping". The lobby ceiling was absolutely riddled with bullet holes :)