OP TELIC - Its official it was a Pigs ear.

T

Toerag

Guest
#1
The first draft of the OP Telic debrief is now complete: All tourex reports have been seen & considered.

The official word from the very top is it was a total “pigs ear” from a DMS perspective.

All equipment lost/mislaid by a QM running in at around 2 million has now been written of & SIB have concluded their investigations, adding no blame will be proportioned to any one individual although it is commented that this SNCO was extremely gullible at times.

The US complaint involving the incident when a NBC alert was sounded then the all clear given in which it is claimed 202 did not hear or receive information concerning the all clear & a Blackhawk helicopter landed with causalities requiring regular DMS personnel to attend as 202 effectively shut up shop & did not send out their ambulance is still under investigation.

Serious questions have been asked of certain individuals i.e. a TA field hospital CO/SNO/RSM to find out what the hell do they think they were doing.

The deployment of TA/reservists was deemed a success. However all field management skills were deemed appalling with environmental health almost condemning the facilities on more than 1 occasion, comments such as litter sweeps seemed to be a foreign word at this unit.

Many options are being considered to improve the situation the most dramatic being the abolishment of standing TA units i.e. they do not deploy as a entire entity. The units are restructured in support of regular services to fill gaps & short falls in personnel. With specialised sections being devolved i.e. burns & trauma teams of no more than 20 or so. Plus general duties staff to be deployed in FTRS roles more frequently.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#2
Top post, Toerag.

The DMS are rubbish? Are TA heads to roll?

I can't believe that the field skills weren't up to it! (sarcasm), did the chickens come home to roost?

On taking over in Jul, from the afore mentioned unit, we filled 5 large skips with rubbish that just needed picking up. Basic admin appeared non existant.

Please expand on the points if possible, I am not suprised the powers that be are contemplating the disbandment of independant units to go for the specialist type set-up.

A TA unit couldn't deploy on its own so why have them- just have a pool, like the chefs do and cherry pick what you want and when you want. Having this luxury without the cost of individual units.

No suprise, no one is to carry the can for lost G10 but then again they rarely do- unless of course they want someone to blame!
 
#3
Some reasonable gossip at last

Toerag said:
The US complaint involving the incident when a NBC alert was sounded then the all clear given in which it is claimed 202 did not hear or receive information concerning the all clear & a Blackhawk helicopter landed with causalities requiring regular DMS personnel to attend as 202 effectively shut up shop & did not send out their ambulance is still under investigation.
This incident involving the helicopter sounds interesting. A mate of mine mentioned about it when she got back. Nice to see that someone appears to be taking it seriously.
 
#4
Toerag said:
The equipment lost/mislaid by a QM running in at around 2 million has now been written of & SIB have concluded their investigations, adding no blame will be proportioned to any one individual although it is commented that this SNCO was extremely gullible at times.
This missing kit now means that the regular DMS soldiers deployed now are having to suffer. Where are the missing 500 dome mosquito nets? BLACK BUSH market!!!! Thought we all had to work together within the DMS, TA or regular but all they have done is shaft us and give a bad name. With regard to the camp admin what were the PSI's doing surely they shuld have a better understanding. Although I do recakll nursing staff from the TA field hopital on takeover asking what time the cleaners cam,e in to clean the wards. Told them it depends on what time you hand over shifts!!!

Please keep us informed of any developments toerag.
 
#5
8) in reguard to the missing kit, it probably never left the uk, having served on telic one (the insertion), it was only a day or so before we crossed that we got a second NBC suit let alone mossy nets or solar showers or any of the other gucci kit that seems to be pouring in to theatre now. the TA guys attached had next to sod all kit and were badly trained and equipt for the job. a bank clerk in uniform is no good to me as a DC. the call up procedure as to who and when needs to be looked at.
 
#6
naafinag said:
8) ...in regard to the missing kit, it probably never left the uk, ....

As I understand it, & someone who was there please correct me if I’m wrong.

22 set up a receiving station, completed vaccinations & any out standing med bits & bobs.

33 then arrived setting up 200 beds etc, 22 being slightly more switched on than most finished their task, & back loaded all their kit.

33 then were relieved by 202 (taking over there fully set up Hosp), with 33 held in reserve at Camp Coyote with little to do.

34 then arrived setting up somewhere near Basra (100-150 beds), until 202 moved forward taking over 34.

202 now had all the kit to 33 & 34. So I assume from Toerags post that the question is where is all the kit to these 2 hospitals, both where in theatre & set up & in use, most likely on someone’s signature although it appears location unknown. I would think it’s relatively difficult to miss lay 2 million quid worth of kit from a hospital, its not like someone say I’ve mislaid a Challenger or something. I can’t think of a single item other than some generator type & some theatre kit that may run into many thousands of pounds.

I take it someone has had a look round the local hospitals.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#7
The fact a Fd Hosp UET is about £45million, all ends up with med kit and vehicles etc. So loosing £2million doesnt seem so bad!

I'd like to know the source of the report, as no one here in the hierachy has seen it fall out of AMD, whom I am assuming had drafted it.

No doubt the RAMC 'blame' culture will kick in and they will bust a LCpl!
 
#8
With regard to the Blackhawk incident ( which I hasten to add did take place) I hope that the personnel from 33 Fd Hosp who went, unloaded and initially treated the casualties will receive some recognition? Or in order to appease the situation will they be officially named as coming from 202?

Despite the alleged confusion over alarms, if we saw what was happening why did'nt they? Thankfully some people on that day remembered what we are really here for and its not an annual bounty!
 
#9
The Blackhawk saga did happen and if it were not for the 33 personnel coming to the rescue god knows what would of happened.
When the casualties were moved to the hospital, the brave staff of 202 were to be found hiding under tables with CBA and helmets on saying "what Blackhawk and no we are not coming out till it is safe" they should lower there heads in shame and be stripped of anything to do with the RAMC and QARANC.
Op telic 1 has shown us that trying to deploy a complete TA unit is impossible. Only approx 45 personnel were from 202 the rest were from other units, and to deploy them they had to moberlise 1000 to get 600. The ones that failed the medicals are still in the TA to rub the salt in the wounds. Not fit to deploy, not fit to be in the TA.
TA units suck on deployment. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
 
#10
sous said:
The ones that failed the medicals are still in the TA to rub the salt in the wounds. Not fit to deploy, not fit to be in the TA.
TA units suck on deployment.
So you won't be applying for that Trg Off post at 220 that you have been enquiring about when you return to blighty next month to hand your pi$$ed mattress in then!!!
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#11
sous said:
Op telic 1 has shown us that trying to deploy a complete TA unit is impossible. Only approx 45 personnel were from 202 the rest were from other units, and to deploy them they had to moberlise 1000 to get 600. The ones that failed the medicals are still in the TA to rub the salt in the wounds. Not fit to deploy, not fit to be in the TA.
TA units suck on deployment. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Was that because of the same laser treatment your going to have to get off Telic 7?
 
#12
According to the offical report on Telic 1 Phase 1&2 it all went swimingly we had a well equiped field hospital with everything it needed!!!!!!!!

When i read this report in Iraq(from MOD website I nearly choked as it bore no relation to the operation that I have just returned from.

As to the assertion of loss of kit I would sugest that it was lost by a certain regular field hospital who packed and repacked it at fox who have done their damdest to blame 202. Equipment management needs looked at in a big way by all units concerned

for all that happened 202 did do well they really needed a work up period. I would say the wrong regular hospital was sent home.

As to hygene in desert it is noted that the 34 used DLT's and refused porta loos and had a major D+V problem(amongst others) yes shaiba is a shit hole but amazingly it cleared after 202 gutted the cookhouse and closed the DLT's !!!!!!

Having had to deal with all 4 hospitals I'm afraid the order i would rate them is 22,33,202 and lastly 34
 
#13
Q man in relation to your statement how many REGULAR AMS personel Could not be deployed because they are medically downgraded? have family commitments and are still in receipt of full X-factor?

Not to mention the busy period at many med centres as Regulars scrambled to get their medical gradings sorted so they couldn't be deployed.
 
#14
Just out of errrr :D idle interest, what's the standard of totty in 22?
 
#15
can anyone from 34 confirm or deny the rumour that went rond theatre about their first PW's at shaiba? ......... did a section of US soldiers surrender to the recce party? following a Blue on Blue
 
#16
Nurse which unit did you deploy with? As I recall and not defending anyone otr unit 22 only deployed 25 beds airportable as 33 were awaiting the arrival of the ship with their containers on.

As for the equipment management what was wrong with it?

Admittadely 33 had to await med modules from 84 as did 22 which caused a delay. I suspect that you are a nurse who arrives at a field hospital on deployment and expects it all to be done for you. In truth the cadre staff of all three Fd Hosp approx 105 pax from CO down, do their best to maintain the kit. But if you allow for the clinical and military training that has to take place plus all the RAAT tasks that they still get from Bde the actual amount of man hours able to spend doing the equipment care is minimal, normally one week every month.

As for apportioning blame all units are probably guilty of that. Until all three Fd Hosp work together and stop trying to out do each other then we are always going to have the same problem. I know if you looked at the three UET's they are all different why? They are all designed to do the same job with the same capability. Surely they should mirror each other equipment wise!!!
 
#17
I deployed with 33
but no i don't deploy expecting ot all to be there. I am Probably more aware of the med log issues and continuing issues by the nature of my employment after 33 left.

MSA did a huge amount of work and I have to say it preformed well above what should have been expected of them to get kit out. I know the constraints they had and the difficulties getting the kit into theatre. The accounting of the stores post issue was shoddy to say the least. Not helped by personalities and the tryng to shaft a certain unit.

Thene there is the peoples democratic republic of 6&9 sup regts who now have med log to deal with and don't want to but they want 84's personell and specailst storage to make their life more comfortable. EG redirecting portakabins ment for temp controlled stock to use as a bread cooler and regt HQ whilst hundreds of thosands of £ worth of med stores cooks in ISO's or tents. 84's powers of improvisation really should be recognised. But no to quote a senior RLC officer to 84 'dont bring any of that medical rubbish back to UK
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#18
nurse said:
for all that happened 202 did do well they really needed a work up period. I would say the wrong regular hospital was sent home.

As to hygene in desert it is noted that the 34 used DLT's and refused porta loos and had a major D+V problem(amongst others) yes shaiba is a s**t hole but amazingly it cleared after 202 gutted the cookhouse and closed the DLT's !!!!!!

Having had to deal with all 4 hospitals I'm afraid the order i would rate them is 22,33,202 and lastly 34
Lets look at the points above.

1. Lets assume 'nurse'; you are a TA QA Officer- your contact with G1098 husbandry is virtually nil- (unless you served as a 'untermensch' prior to commissioning), you sound like one of the officers who turn up on Ops and expect a mini St Thomas' to pop out of the ground. They dont, because soldiers, usually regulars have to build them and the kit isnt always there due to the suplly chain, drugs and med kit isn't there due to budgets being spent.
The Regular cadres have the work of 400 soldiers to carry out with I would say, on parade daily, about 15-20 blokes tops. So I'd say they do a pretty good job.
One unit deployed without its MMSL, and had to be resupplied by another which was carrying it.

2. When we took over from 202 in Jul, we filled 5 large skips with debris, not the usual flotsum and jetsom of war- but water bottles, water boxes, old sandbags, fag butts, general squaddie rubbish that they couldn't be bothered to pick up. The camp is now presentable. The hospital was very good- but the rest of the place was devoid of any admin control. My place of work was lucky to have functioned, it was flown by the seat of their pant, to coin a phrase. We put into place measures they hadn't considered for Force Protection etc.

3. Your league table must be objective- did you serve in all the units whilst in theatre, to have an opinion of them all? I agree with your last two, maybe even swap them, but how can you compare a 25 bedder with a heavy 200 Fd Hosp in stature? Having served in both 22 and 33- 33 is head and shoulders better, maybe I am biased, but atleast its based on experience.

4. As you say 34 had D&V probs the same they had in Afghanistan, but not so well publicised I imagine. (Bad morale etc) Its all about admin and its part of the whole picture- Its no good having a good hospital and crap accomodation area, it all has to be good or you end up with the problems 34 encountered- for whatever reasons.[/quote]
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#19
nurse said:
Q man in relation to your statement how many REGULAR AMS personel Could not be deployed because they are medically downgraded? have family commitments and are still in receipt of full X-factor?

Not to mention the busy period at many med centres as Regulars scrambled to get their medical gradings sorted so they couldn't be deployed.
Not denying Regulars pull flankers prior to deployments, lets get one thing clear I am TA and was at Chilwell where numerous call ups were sent home. I am not denying the committment some TA have- hey I am here still, the statement was a bit of humour with 'sous' who wrote the original post. We like humour- you should try it.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#20
nurse said:
can anyone from 34 confirm or deny the rumour that went rond theatre about their first PW's at shaiba? ......... did a section of US soldiers surrender to the recce party? following a Blue on Blue
Oh you have tried humour- very funny. Troops from any nation do not surrender to RAMC recce parties!
 

Similar threads


Latest Threads

Top