Op SEELOWE

Any bidders?

'It was intended that Operation Sea Lion, as Hitler called it, would have been launched from captured French ports in September 1940. The aim would have been to sweep around London, just 76 kms from the Channel, and enact a swift surrender from Winston Churchill’s government.

'A bound copy of the plans is to be sold off this weekend by auctioneers Henry Aldridge & Son of Devizes in southern England. Auctioneer Andrew Aldridge said he expected bids of up to $9000: “This is a fascinating account. This is the ‘what if’ scenario.” Copies of the book, called German Plans for the Invasion of England in 1940 were given to limited number of senior officials in British intelligence after the war finished in 1947, reported the Mirror.'


The Nazis’ secret invasion plans for Britain have been unearthed

While pretty familiar with the details of the various Heer and Kriegsmarine variations of the plan, I'd never heard of this element before, which makes the whole thing even more fanciful and unattainable.

'Hitler would initially look to confuse the British forces by launching an attack on northern Britain, between Newcastle and the Scottish city of Aberdeen.'
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
Any bidders?

'It was intended that Operation Sea Lion, as Hitler called it, would have been launched from captured French ports in September 1940. The aim would have been to sweep around London, just 76 kms from the Channel, and enact a swift surrender from Winston Churchill’s government.

'A bound copy of the plans is to be sold off this weekend by auctioneers Henry Aldridge & Son of Devizes in southern England. Auctioneer Andrew Aldridge said he expected bids of up to $9000: “This is a fascinating account. This is the ‘what if’ scenario.” Copies of the book, called German Plans for the Invasion of England in 1940 were given to limited number of senior officials in British intelligence after the war finished in 1947, reported the Mirror.'

The Nazis’ secret invasion plans for Britain have been unearthed

While pretty familiar with the details of the various Heer and Kriegsmarine variations of the plan, I'd never heard of this element before, which makes the whole thing even more fanciful and unattainable.

'Hitler would initially look to confuse the British forces by launching an attack on northern Britain, between Newcastle and the Scottish city of Aberdeen.'
Good job they didn't choose Hartlepool.
 
Any bidders?

'It was intended that Operation Sea Lion, as Hitler called it, would have been launched from captured French ports in September 1940. The aim would have been to sweep around London, just 76 kms from the Channel, and enact a swift surrender from Winston Churchill’s government.

'A bound copy of the plans is to be sold off this weekend by auctioneers Henry Aldridge & Son of Devizes in southern England. Auctioneer Andrew Aldridge said he expected bids of up to $9000: “This is a fascinating account. This is the ‘what if’ scenario.” Copies of the book, called German Plans for the Invasion of England in 1940 were given to limited number of senior officials in British intelligence after the war finished in 1947, reported the Mirror.'

The Nazis’ secret invasion plans for Britain have been unearthed

While pretty familiar with the details of the various Heer and Kriegsmarine variations of the plan, I'd never heard of this element before, which makes the whole thing even more fanciful and unattainable.

'Hitler would initially look to confuse the British forces by launching an attack on northern Britain, between Newcastle and the Scottish city of Aberdeen.'
I will trade you a Donald Trump!!??
 
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I once did a 40 minute presentation on Operation Seelowe at Devizes Branch College.

Interesting stuff as the county history included the Auxiliers, Coleshill House and the defence's along the Kennet and Avon canal.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
I once did a 40 minute presentation on Operation Seelowe at Devizes Branch College.

Interesting stuff as the county history included the Auxiliers, Coleshill House and the defence's along the Kennet and Avon canal.
I live within a mile of the canal, still see the bunkers every few hundred metres. I have wondered though - in places there is high ground directly on the southern side of the canal from which ze Germans would have been able to see well into the rear...
 

NSP

LE
I live within a mile of the canal, still see the bunkers every few hundred metres. I have wondered though - in places there is high ground directly on the southern side of the canal from which ze Germans would have been able to see well into the rear...
There's a lot of pillboxes and sets of dragon's teeth along the Bridgwater & Taunton Canal (my wood of the neck), too - one of the "stop lines" to blunt any attempt to outflank us with landings in Devon and Cornwall.

Some references, some with lots of pics:-

Taunton Stop Line - Wikipedia
Taunton Stopline & Chard Canal - Aug 2011
The Taunton Stop Line - Waterfront
Friends of the Bridgwater & Taunton Canal - Pillboxes
 
The Kennet and Avon Canal? Isn't that a narrow-boat type canal? As in unlike the Panama Canal or Kiel Canal or St Lawrence Seaway? Or the Rhein or the Weser.

I can't see it being much more than a short pause to bombard seven bells out of a defended point and then bridge it. Better than no stop lines at all, and never needed in the end, but a narrow canal is a bit flaky to rely on for a barrier.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
The Kennet and Avon Canal? Isn't that a narrow-boat type canal? As in unlike the Panama Canal or Kiel Canal or St Lawrence Seaway? Or the Rhein or the Weser.

I can't see it being much more than a short pause to bombard seven bells out of a defended point and then bridge it. Better than no stop lines at all, and never needed in the end, but a narrow canal is a bit flaky to rely on for a barrier.
Yes, but the Hermans didn't turn up so it doesn't really matter.
 
I live within a mile of the canal, still see the bunkers every few hundred metres. I have wondered though - in places there is high ground directly on the southern side of the canal from which ze Germans would have been able to see well into the rear...
The germans hated stellungskrieg and that style of positional warfare has a way of burning through ammunition very quickly.. So a day or so later, when our Mobile forces sweep into the counter-attack and get a bloody nose, they would have to burn through what little ammo they had left.... How many rounds would a german soldier carry and how long to burn through that scale ? before resupply over a channel, filled with the Royal Navy and RAF bombing the beaches and Ports in France and our troops resupplied and reinforced.
 
The Kennet and Avon Canal? Isn't that a narrow-boat type canal? As in unlike the Panama Canal or Kiel Canal or St Lawrence Seaway? Or the Rhein or the Weser.

I can't see it being much more than a short pause to bombard seven bells out of a defended point and then bridge it. Better than no stop lines at all, and never needed in the end, but a narrow canal is a bit flaky to rely on for a barrier.
How were the Hun going to get these mobile bridges across Der Kanal?
 
I live within a mile of the canal, still see the bunkers every few hundred metres. I have wondered though - in places there is high ground directly on the southern side of the canal from which ze Germans would have been able to see well into the rear...
My understanding was that they intended to blow the bridges too, then when you look at some of the bridges even the ruins would have provided a high point overlooking a neighbouring pillbox.

The Kennet and Avon Canal? Isn't that a narrow-boat type canal? As in unlike the Panama Canal or Kiel Canal or St Lawrence Seaway? Or the Rhein or the Weser.

I can't see it being much more than a short pause to bombard seven bells out of a defended point and then bridge it. Better than no stop lines at all, and never needed in the end, but a narrow canal is a bit flaky to rely on for a barrier.
It was allegedly part of the last line of defence. Desperate times.
 
Oh FFS...

Once again:
Sept 1940 (date most likely date for the best prepared German Attempt):
British strength in just Home Waters: 104 Destroyers, 40 of which were in the invasion area.
German Strength: 10 destroyers.

Small craft:
British: ~2,500
German: 217

Number of Germans with any boating experience (IE: a Lake in Bavaria): IIRC, about 1/3rd of the required total to man the flotilla.

Any time Sealion gets mentioned I all turns to ratshit in the first 30 seconds when you consider the big blue thing called the 'sea'.

Even if you just cross your fingers, munch on some German special chocolate, and pray to The Fuhrer and wish that out of existence, its still looking damn ropey!
 
How were the Hun going to get these mobile bridges across Der Kanal?
No idea of their Engr capability at the time, but the Allies faced a similar, but much wider bridging problem and solved it a handful of years later.

Stood on the banks of the Rhein and thinking "Crap, I need to cross this monster" must have been a much more daunting proposition than crossing a 14ft canal.
 
No idea of their Engr capability at the time, but the Allies faced a similar, but much wider bridging problem and solved it a handful of years later.

Stood on the banks of the Rhein and thinking "Crap, I need to cross this monster" must have been a much more daunting proposition than crossing a 14ft canal.
Yes, but we had 4 years of R&D. Anyway, I live on the Kennett - though not a big river, when combined with the canal, water meadows, the railway, embankments and cuttings it is a natural obstacle line and provides many canalized killing zones.
 
Stood on the banks of the Rhein and thinking "Crap, I need to cross this monster" must have been a much more daunting proposition than crossing a 14ft canal.
Well, consider the following.
Every gun in the area is aimed at you and pre-zero'd (Fun factoid, AA command Birmingham worked out a scheme called BARGAIN scheme, where they tied their 3.7"'s into the army for Indirect fire, which was soon adopted across the country. Yes, I know HAA isn't exactly good in IDF role, but it adds to the tonnage), you'd be under constant fire from bunkers, you have no supplies, ammo or food. Even manpower is a bit sketchy. You also have no tanks. The Canal may well be on fire (IIRC the UK had about 6 million tons of POL, they figured if they got invaded might as well set it on fire and chuck it at the Germans, hence why you see flame weapons so commonly in anti-invasion measures).
Oh and the land on your side is a bit of a swamp.

That's not including the massive amounts of chemical weapons that got dumped on you, and you have no protection against.

Equally once you do start bridging its likely that a couple of Tommies will set up in a bush near by overnight and obliterate you're best efforts at first light with a Blacker Bombard.

On the plus side you do have a large number of horses going spare.
 
D

Deleted 60082

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Hence why I said "never needed", but it still smacks of "piss poor plan".
Given that the Germans were unlikely to have much combat engineer support, and given that each crossing point (eg locks) were heavily defended or denied (eg blowing up bridges), and given that they would be careful with their ammunition, I reckon the Germans would have had quite a challenge. Crossing similar canals in the first world war (under similar conditions, such as low/no armour) were no walk-over.
 
I read somewhere, that during the BoB, Bomber Command's medium sqns were tasked with taking out the Germans landing craft in Belgium/French port's, any truth in that?
 

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